That was well put, and I understand the disclaimer - I'll even add my own disclaimer retroactively -- I don't hate gay people... I just see it as suboptimal, and promoting it is unjustifiable. That's why the flag basically compelled me to speak up. I don't seek to cure gays - I seek to address the underlying cause than manifests the effect. Address the cause, and the effect will sort itself out. And in that context, I would prefer compassion towards them, even if their choices are wrong.

What are your thoughts on Feudalism? I am basically coming around to the opinion that Feudalism is actually the only "just" arrangement of a state. I don't mean serfs - contractual work is a detail that can be adjusted as needed. But Feudalism is the simple concept that fealty is a limited obligation, and the king and the vassal both have duties to each other, and one of its conditions is that the vassal's property must never be stolen.

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I don't have a problem with governance or hierarchies if all the parties are voluntarily consenting and they're not coercing me to go along with their thing.

Any system that preserves Exit gets a thumbs-up from me.

Yeah. The ability to exit really is the bottom line

Exactly

Are you familiar the Mouse Utopia experiment?

Many parallels.

I am not. Enlighten me?

this is part of the origin of the Rats of Nimh books

National institute of Mental Health

absolutely horrifying what they did to these poor critters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rats_of_NIMH

notice how the NIMH is capitalized?

the school teacher who read one of these books in my year five primary school class also coincidentally gave away a bunch of books one time and one was a book about the paranormal that set me off on a whole thing that really has shaped so much of my subsequent life

she also read us Charlottes Web, which probably is actually also a covert narrative relating to some horrible government experiment

reading that wikipedia page indeed it must surely be related

the premise of the story was it was a government experiment to make rats sapient and what happened when there was too many of them

the reality was simply an experiment where they did all kinds of weird things to the living quarters and yes indeed they also put too many of them together and observed their behaviour

so, yeah, the books were clearly tied to the experiments