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SegWit and Taproot had clear benefits to rank and file node operators. Both, for example, enable smaller transaction sizes to make better use of block space.

Drivechain does not offer clear benefits to rank and file node operators. Rather, it appeals to special interests. And to deliver to these interests, it grants new powers to miners.

If Drivechain proponents want node operators to adopt their new rules, the onus is on them to make a persuasive argument. What’s in it for me?

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

every argument for drivechain is for rank and file node operators.

Also, there are no rank and file node operators, this isn't an army, just individual users.

Your statement is absolutist. If even one node operator wants it your counter argument is invalid. If even one node operator wants it, a majority blocking it is called demoncracy. Making bitcoin democratic.

DEMOCRATIC MONEY IS FIAT MONEY.

Its the 99% forcing the 1% to against their will. Bip300 allows both worlds, it allows a "rank and file"(whatever that means,) node operator to do what they want, and you to continue not doing anything.

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Discussion

jimbocoin 🃏 2y ago

My argument is “what’s in it for me?”

SegWit and Taproot offered me clear benefits. How does Drivechain benefit me?

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

Fuck you. I have things i want from drivechain, i run a node, why do you need to have some clear benefit but mine are not relevant ?

See how that works ?

(The fu is not serious, its to illustrate a point)

Drivechain allows us to never have tonhave arguments like this again. You don't argue with some neigboring family about what kind of ketchup they buy. DC keeps bitcoin bitcoin, and layer 2 whatever you want. Basic economics. Peace among nations

jimbocoin 🃏 2y ago

Drivechain needs node operators to enforce the rule change, otherwise it wouldn’t be a soft fork.

I’m a node operator. I want to know how it benefits me to perform this labor. So far, I have only heard arguments about how it benefits other people, your post being the most recent example.

bevo 2y ago

I’m a node operator. I can’t get my head around any of it. I have come to the conclusion not what’s in it for me but what’s in it for the space as a whole. Yet to understand the unintended consequences to go close to making a decision.

BOL 2y ago

The so-called "large miners" can fork off if they want, according to the illustrious MrHodl , your incumbent node will probably never even notice (even though there may chain tip drama behind the scenes)

I guess you'll want to check in on what's happening when you need/want to make an on-chain transaction

jimbocoin 🃏 2y ago

Miners can certainly initiate their own Drivechain soft fork. The question is whether they can maintain it.

The instant that a majority of hash is not defending the escrow, it’ll drain to the defecting miners. In effect, the sidechain escrow acts as a bounty, begging miners to drop the fork and take it.

This is why Drivechain truly needs the support of node operators. Nodes must be willing to invalidate the escrow piracy attempts, otherwise miners are incentivized to defect.

BOL 2y ago

Ah, thanks for outlining this scenario... So if most node operators don't upgrade their node to "version drive chain" than the bitcoin locked up in drivechains would likely get pillaged to the point that no one would risk locking up bitcoin in a drivechain?

BOL 2y ago

And a URSF would be a preemptive way of node operators signalling that they wouldn't "drivechain" at this point?

jimbocoin 🃏 2y ago

Nodes can signal whatever they like, but it’s an unreliable metric. A malicious actor could spin up any number of zombie nodes to Sybil whatever signal they prefer.

This was a concern during the BIP148 UASF of 2017. Many nodes were announcing their intent to enforce the fork, but nobody knew how many of those nodes represented real people’s actual interests.

For this reason, the #UASF campaign on Twitter was an important additional signal showing support.

BOL 2y ago

Thanks for this reminder!

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

Nope, don't listen to this guy it fake info and he's pulling shit out of their ass.

Nice and Kind Vic 2y ago

yes

jimbocoin 🃏 2y ago

If node operators are not enforcing the fork, then it is in every miner’s immediate financial interest to assign to themselves the escrow coin. For this reason, I predict that the coin will be swept (cold, hard incentives).

One could make the argument that miners’ long term interests are better served by keeping the drivechain going (that is, by safeguarding the escrow). The question is whether miners (mining pools, specifically) believe that it is in sufficient quantity to ignore defector’s blocks.

Do miners have the collective will to keep each other’s hands out of the cookie jar?

BOL 2y ago

Mining has proven to be a crazy, competitive industry, appreciate them, but in hindsight a lot of them will probably say:

Shoulda stayed humble and just stacked more sats

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

False

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

Its like i'm talking to a brick wall.

Absolute dullard.

BOL 2y ago

Peace has as much to do with orderliness than an absence of war... Not much orderly about this whole drivechain "proposal"

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

Drivechain allows us to arrive at a balanced peace through the free market.

You llike rank and file, stay on main net. You never have to put money into a sidechain.

RealJohnDoe 2y ago

Where do you get the #fucking mistaken idea that what you think or want with respect to #Bitcoin matters..💀👹

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

Where do you get the #fucking mistaken idea that what you think or want with respect to #Bitcoin matters..💀👹

RealJohnDoe 2y ago

Your interest aren't relevant because everything you're saying is probably a lie.

And if in fact you're running a node it's just to try and #fuck someone..💀

Sovereign Matt 2y ago

A privacy end-2-end encrypted sidechain would be 100x improvement for bitcoin privacy rather than having to worry about kyc or doing coinjoins.

BOL 2y ago

"The state" is always gonna "state" though

I'm sure most HODLERS are on various government lists at this point...

Drivechain does not fix the digital panopticon that has been built

RealJohnDoe 2y ago

#Bullshit..💀

Sovereign Matt 2y ago

What’s bullshit?

RealJohnDoe 2y ago

It doesn't benefit us. That's the point. It's just a con game. They want to #fuck us and all of #Bitcoin up the #ass..💀

Cyber Seagull 2y ago

Dumb dumb has no arguments, just swears.

Thinks he is right