Replying to Avatar f0xr

I've heard that when you find yourself at the bottom of a deep hole holding a shovel, the best policy is to stop digging. But you haven't stopped yet so...

That text wall about testicles makes zero sense. You start off by claiming that it's a stupid design. Which supposedly proves that it evolved instead of being created.

Then you continue by explaining in detail why a different placement wouldn't work because it would reduce reproductive fitness. Unfortunately you actually have no idea what you're talking about, you say your best guess is that hardy sperm that could survive in the rib cage would either (1) take too much energy or (2) be too slow to produce. That's just complete speculation, you actually have no idea. But you defend the existing design by claiming any other design would hurt reproductive fitness and would therefore be eliminated by the process of natural selection.

So which is it? Your entire point was that the current placement is a design flaw that proves it wasn't intelligently designed. You can't simultaneously argue that it's a stupid design that proves evolution occurred, but also the most reproductively ideal design possible. If it's a stupid design, propose a better one. If you can't, I don't see any alternative to the conclusion that it was designed by someone more intelligent than yourself.

The problem is, you're trying to play both sides of the fence. You want to use so-called "design flaws" to "prove" no intelligent design. But you know full well that almost everything in nature is elegantly and functionally designed almost to the point of perfection. So you also have to leave the door open to the argument that evolution can produce ideal and optimally fit outcomes. It's a "heads I win, tails you lose" argument, and I see right through it.

I'm fully aware of how birds lost their ability to fly and mole rats their ability to see. Again, I'm not sure how you think a loss of function is going to convince me of the power of evolution. The problem for you is, that's all we observe happening today; loss of previous function and information. We don't see the reverse. If you could point to a bird that had no wings and developed wings and the ability to fly over time, that would be relevant. This isn't. It's like arguing that the fact that some shingles blew off your house during a hurricane proves that your house was built by random gusts of wind blowing the structure into place. It's ludicrous. Increasing entropy is the exact opposite of what we would see if evolution was in fact responsible for the order we see in living organisms.

I fully agree that evolution does not create something new out of nothing. Gradually adapting what it already has begs the question of where that "what it already has" came from. If evolution doesn't explain the origin of life, it seems pretty ludicrous to keep defending it given the complete lack of alignment with the real world.

You keep dodging the question of how evolution does all the things you claim it does. How does it change the DNA? A human has 20-25,000 genes and over 3 billion DNA base pairs. How does evolution go from a single cell organism or whatever you think came first somehow, to that? How do the changes in the DNA happen? If the changes don't happen randomly by coincidence, what's' the mechanism?

One piece of evidence of God's existence outside our reality is His Word, in which He gives us some specific information about His nature and activities. Since the other information He gave has proven to be accurate, reliable and useful in understanding the world, it's logical to conclude that the information about His existence is also accurate.

The position of testicles is the best that evolution can do. That does not mean it is intelligently designed. I don’t understand where your confusion is. God placing the testicles between the legs is retarded when he could’ve created us in a way where reproduction could happen without testicles at all. An all powerful limitless god can do anything. Saying that testicles between your legs is intelligently designed doesn’t make sense. If religious people argued that god designed us in this way because he just felt like it, I’d respect that. If you wanted to build a car from scratch, it would look like what cars look like today. However, if you were going to convert a washing machine into a car, you’d have to make certain sacrifices. No matter how many years engineers spend optimizing that washing machine, it’s never going to be intelligently designed because you’re just adapting what it already has.

I’m using logical reasoning. Sperm die in higher temperatures. When it’s hot your balls sag lower to stay cool.

My point is that it is not intelligently designed. It is just the best that natural selection could do. It’s a B instead of an A+.

There are intermediary animals that evolved to fly in the fossil records. There are also animals that appear to be in a transitory stage of flight: flying squirrels and flying fish.

The question of where “what it already has” came from is not one that I have attempted to provide an answer for. Evolution does not explain where the origin of life comes from. My simple response to that would be what is the origin of god? Where did god come from? What created him?

It’s natural selection. DNA changes occur through mutations and then natural selection does the rest.

How do you know what gods word is? Which god? Just because some things in an ancient religious text are true, does not mean everything else it says is true. What about the things that god supposedly said that are false?

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I'm not confused at all. You're making an argument that is illogical, and I'm just pointing it out to you. I explained why it's illogical clearly enough. If you can't grasp the logic, that's out of my control.

I don't know the religious people you're talking about, but I certainly don't think God created humans the way they are for some reason other than because that's how He wanted to do it. He created life in an unimaginable variety of forms, obviously He could create it however He chose.

Once again, you say it's not intelligently designed, just the best evolution can do, without offering a more intelligent design. You say God could have created humans to reproduce without sperm. Single cell and low level organisms reproduce without sperm. You're the one who has to argue that there's some advantage to sexual reproduction that caused evolution to "create?' and select for that trait. So non sexual reproduction isn't actually a better design?

I know you didn't answer what the origin of life is, that's why I asked. "Where does God come from" isn't a response to that question, it's avoiding the question. Implying that my explanation for the origin of life is wrong isn't a "gotcha" if when you don't have an explanation at all. Like I said, God exists outside the parameters of time and the physical universe, so it's not a coherent question. Origin implies a time and a place, God isn't confined by time and place so He doesn't need an origin.

Mutations? So random copying mistakes in DNA? Coincidental errors? If you make enough mutations to a DNA string you go from a single cell organism with 500 genes to a human with 20,000 genes?

Genetic code is incredibly complex, but let's say for the sake of argument that one specific trait, say a functional wing, could be simplified down to a deck of 52 playing cards in a specific order. Would the mechanism of action be a mutation or mutations shuffle the deck, then natural selection determines whether the changes are beneficial, and if they aren't the organism just dies, but if it did succeed in getting the correct order to code for a wing, that organism will survive and pass on the improvement? And if the first try is a failure it basically just keeps "shuffling the deck" with more mutations until the correct sequence is hit and progress happens?

There's only one God, the one described in the Bible. God didn't say things that are false. Whether you choose to believe what He said is up to you, I'm not the one you'll have to answer to for your choice.

If you don’t understand what I’m trying to argue about evolution, then I have either failed to explain it correctly or you are incapable of understanding it. If you’re interested you can read a book called why evolution is true by Jerry Coyne. Arguing any further would be a waste of time.

I already asked you for evidence of god existing out of this reality but you haven’t provided that. I’m still waiting.

It’s not a shuffling of a deck, it’s simpler than that. The changes are so small that they’re not really noticeable. Like the webbing of an animals feet getting smaller by a fraction of a centimeter over hundreds or thousands of years until it’s almost gone. Why do humans have tail bones? Why do we still have the genetic code for growing a tail? Why are some babies still born with tails today?

Can you prove that there is only one god? Can you prove that the Bible is the word of god? The Bible says that the earth is a firmament. Do you believe that the earth is flat then?