Replying to Avatar Chris Liss

I believe in the notion of truth. Not merely propositional truth like 2 + 2 = 4, though that too, but also the idea that what someone says can be authentic, profound and true.

Another aspect of truth is beauty. I think music can be harmonious and art aesthetically true. I don’t claim to have special knowledge over what is true, beautiful or harmonious, only that those things exist, and human beings can discern them. I also believe in justice which in my view is moral truth.

Truth, beauty and justice exist even if we are not personally able to recognize them. In other words, while they are perceptible to human beings generally, any particular person or group might miss them.

One example that comes to mind is if you renovate a home. You and your architect might disagree about the layout. Imagine he persuades you to trust him, and you discover he was correct, the house is more harmonious, proportionate and beautiful than had you done it your way. The aesthetic truth for that house was not what you had imagined, but it existed, and you were lucky someone else had the eye for it.

. . .

I don’t write much about what’s going on in Israel and Palestine because I’m not interested in it. I’m not interested in it because it doesn’t affect my immediate existence, and those who are interested in it mostly seem to be closed-minded and emotional about the topic. Because I am not into it, I am not especially informed, nor am I inclined to inform myself better. As far as I can tell, it’s a depressing and tiresome argument between two miserable factions.

That said, the topic sometimes comes up in part because I’m Jewish and know a lot of Jews who care about it and also because I follow people on Twitter on both sides who also care about it. For that reason, I’m aware of *some* of the narratives that are presented and consequently I’ve formulated two main ideas about it, two axioms, so to speak:

(1) Whatever is the just (morally true) result — whether Israel shutting down and leaving the region, Israel conquering and annexing Palestinian territories entirely, or more likely something in between — that's what I would like to see happen.

In other words, no matter how much anyone in particular might disagree with it, the just result, whatever it might be, is the outcome for which I’m rooting.

People will argue for what they *think* is just based on various narratives, but I hope for what is *actually just*, irrespective of those narratives. And I believe such a result must exist, even though I am in no position whatsoever to say what that result would be.

(2) To the extent some people think Palestinians are incorrigible barbaric terrorists and others think Israel (and even "the Jews" more broadly) are incorrigible genocidal maniacs, consider that sense of incorrigibility is directed by both parties at both parties.

In other words, at least one of you\* incorrectly believes the other is inherently beyond redemption, and just as they would be mistaken in believing that about you, you could also be mistaken in believing it about them. In fact, the greater your certainty about their inherent evil, the more difficult it is for you to course-correct, and the closer to their description you actually become. Paradoxically, the more sure you are of who they are, the more correct they are about you.

Before anything approaching a concrete answer to this problem can emerge, I think it's important to realize (1) A just outcome that does not depend on anyone's narrative exists; and (2) That the extent to which you view your adversaries as beyond redemption you most resemble their description of you.

If we accept these two axioms, that justice is possible, and that viewing the other side as incorrigible is a hallmark of one’s own zealotry, we have established the ground upon which a solution is possible. If we reject them, no amount of discussion will ever bear fruit.

### \*Some people might think both are beyond redemption, in which case this post is moot, and there is no just outcome, only might makes right. I think that kind of cynicism is the road to hell.

I'm reading a book, "The Dragon's Prophecy" by Jonathan Cahn. It is an amazing read, despite its sensationalistic title that almost discouraged me from reading it. It goes into what the Bible says regarding what is going on regarding Israel/Palestine and the spiritual significance of the battle for the promised land. I've learned a ton and the book is written so well that it is hard to put it down.

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Maybe I’ll check it out — most of the narratives I’ve heard are just victim olympics justifying anything and everything on both sides.

Uv talked me into it u silver toungued devil😉…I was just looking for something new to read🫡

it's really starting to happen too... Turkey is about to invade Syria now... i remember my father suggested that Gog was Russia and Magog was Turkey, a long time ago, and he also pinpointed just about now as the beginning according to his extensive cross referencing of prophecy texts, and i think he is spot on, and "all eyes shall see him" is this part of what's going on with the drones being seen everywhere? and we have a redhead (just go look up what colour hair was really common with the envious nemesis characters in genesis, Esau notably, but there was a grandson of Noah as well, and this is notably also mentioned in Enoch btw, the red hair

not saying it's literal racism exactly, but rather, that the offspring of the fallen angels a lot of them were redheads, and the ibero-marussian genetic clade is known to have both the white skin and the red/blonde hair - and the deleted lactose tolerance switch that for a lot of the population triggers in late childhood and makes them unable to drink milk

er, yeah, you know the verse, about how the antichrist will talk up peace while making war...

Who is this redhead

what is "promised land". i thought this is a metaphor for hearts and souls or soemthing?

It is Israel, but God promised them land from the River (Euphrates) to the Sea (Mediterranean). When the Palestinians shout "from the river to the sea," they are calling for the annihilations of Israel.

I wonder why they would want to annihilate Israel. Perhaps it is because the Jews owned 7% of the land but claimed almost the whole country, and are now ethnically cleansing them.

I guess if they were good Christians they would follow the example of Christ and just let the Jews murder them.

Also, "Israel" the nation-state has nothing to do with the "Israel" of the Bible.