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By no means is it inevitable, but say you could get a left-libertarian to read:

- Anatomy of the State

- Economics in one Lesson

- Road to Serfdom

Then I find it hard to believe they would not swing right after that.

The gap in my experience is they haven’t yet been disabused of statism/socialism nor embraced deductive reasoning. They may not go full ancap, but it’s impossible to unsee the destruction of the left (often by 2nd/3rd/etc order effects) when you see the construction from the right by enabling individuals through entrepreneurship.
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Jeff Swann 2y ago

I have gone through Economics in One Lesson with people who lean left. Even that either seems to be just out of reach somehow or just doesn't quite connect. There is still like an elusive foundational assumption that seems to be a barrier. And IIRC there are a couple of chapters in that book that are not terribly relevant & just kind of confuse things.

I'm hoping Saif's new book (judging by the reaction of Tom Woods) might be a better starting point.

Anatomy of the State is in some ways better than Econ in One Lesson, pointing out that if "we are our govt" then the Jews committed suicide is pretty eye opening for many. But it's also like jumping right in to the deep end. Easy for someone to get a bit freaked out at the implications & run away from all of it, and/or just look for reasons to demonize Rothbard rather than engage. Discomfort is inevitable, but I think maybe there is a bit of a sweet spot...?

Mises & Hayek are just not very easy to read.

In my experience, Larken Rose has some extremely valuable points (e.g. you can't steal from your neighbor & you can't delegate a power you never had), but he isn't exactly the best or most entertaining writer. And I think a lot of what he says resonates more with conservatives. I have been meaning to spend more time on Michael Heumer's book, The Problem of Political Authority. I know from what I have read of that & from what I have heard him say in talks that he definitely has some arguments that tend to be good at making normies think. Unfortunately there probably won't ever be one book that works for everyone, but I think there is still tons of room for improvement in terms of presentation & distillation of ideas.

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Derek Ross 2y ago

I'm one chapter in with Saifedean's new book. It's fantastic thus far.

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StackSats.IO 2y ago

Right-libertarians never had a single book like Commies had with Marx and I doubt they ever will. So long as governments exist you’re gonna have to overcome the statism which is indoctrinated in all from childhood and that’s where “Road to Serfdom” and “Anatomy of the State” ought come in together.

We’re not talking normies here, specifically left-libertarians. Likely they disagree with drug policy and warmongering at a minimum, after Covid you’d hope they are even more sceptical of scientism which Rothbard foresaw and thoroughly dismantled in his essay whilst it’s hard to deny Hayek’s views on Socialism if you read his backstory and understand he wrote “Road to Serfdom” in the midst of Nazism which he had to escape (although the muddying of nazism as far right might see those dots not be connected).

Only once you’ve disabused the statism can you paint the economics / deductive reasoning picture. Hazlitt may not be the best and hopefully Saif’s latest book can be the new go to for that (I’ve got it but haven’t started yet) but we can’t expect someone new to these ideas to sit down and consume Human Action either.

Marxism preys on emotions. You don’t have to think much reading Marx, it all sounds nice if you just don’t scratch the surface.

Anything from the opposite paradigm requires real logic and thought. It challenges so much of what one thinks they know so it takes time to digest.

Bitcoiners are gonna end up there by exposure though over time. Again, maybe not full ancap, but seeing these “right wingers” constantly be right about an economy disintegrating is hard to ignore. Their W’s will stack up and be a vortex drawing left-libertarians across as they see the State continue to fail with Keynesianism.

I agree there’s a foundational barrier but I reckon that’s as much Statism as anything else. “Right wing” has become a slur, considering moving to that side is a big fucking gulp for many, difficult to embrace until one can’t unsee them being ‘right’.

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BTCapsule 🏴 2y ago

Once I fully embraced anarchy, I no longer considered myself Right. Even among Right libertarians, I have noticed a tendency towards Nationalism, with a “small government to protect the borders”. And of course, the current Right is socialist with their admiration of the police and military.

Proudhon famously said “Property is theft”, but he also said “Property is liberty”, and I think Rothbard understood both of these assertions. To tell a Right leaning libertarian that they don’t have a valid claim to their 100 acres unless they are mixing that land with their labor would not go over too well 😂

And that is an important distinction, because the ownership of land is the ownership of resources, from which all other property is produced.

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jimbocoin 🃏 2y ago

A libertarian is an anarchist who hasn’t finished thinking it all the way through.

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BTCapsule 🏴 2y ago

💯 or they’re not a real libertarian 😂😂😂