Replying to Avatar Derek Ross

Are Paid Relays a Shitcoin?

Last night on Nostr Spaces, we discussed potential implications of paid relays. I believe we Nostriches all understand that paid relays are needed for 1) to pay for the service that we're using as nothing should be free 2) relay operators need funds to pay for relay hardware infrastructure and 3) to thwart spammers.

#[0] said that he thought that paid relays were Shitcoins. What did he mean?

With a Shitcoin, anyone can create one. There is no Proof-of-Work in this process. The creator makes promises about their current offerings or future offerings. And lastly, they want payment and take user's money.

#[1] mentioned that he believed paid relays should operator on a Web-of-Trust model. What does this mean?

Do you know the relay operator? Do they have an older or well known Nostr public key? Did they previously run a free relay? Do reputable people use and recommend this relay? It's fairly easy now to form a Web-of-Trust with well known actors in this space and community.

As we move forward, we do need to watch for scams. A relay and operator could appear out of nowhere. A relay could promise the moon on speed and resources. That relay and relay operator could also disappear in a day or a week or a month, after they've reached their fund raising goal.

Right now, using Nostream to operate a paid relay at least requires a ZBD developer account. This is right now behind a gatekeeper. #[2] needs to approve relay API access. This will get easier in the future. In the future, Nostream will work with other providers and I would assume even end up working with your own node. In the future, we'll need to be more diligent when choosing paid relays.

Start building your Web-of-Trust now.

Relay operators WILL appear out of nowhere. People will probably say I did :-) I'd say I've been around since I write the first uk.finance FAQ on Usenet :-)

There will be scams, because a PAY ONCE model is not sustainable, but while it's essentially the only game in town, and people have no idea what fair charges are, I predict the following :-

Mainstream Media notices Nostr. Scammer buys ads next to those articles, uses all the usual tricks re click-ad, pitches a top end price via a fiat front end. "Just 10 bucks, GOLD LEVEL MEMBER, Free Client Software". Pulls in money, vanishes. As with all scammers, they prey on the new. People who don't know how things work.

The best way to mitigate this is to move to a per month or even per post (if spammers start to pay to relay) model for pay models. Roll out others as you like too. But an ecology of "once only" is where scammers will come and they might thrive.

The next thing that will make it harder for scammers is relay differentiation. I run a relay. I'd like to say "I run a relay out of the UK, following UK law, so great for Brits and other english speakers". Right now, I can't. (But I did see the post that suggests soon, I'll be able to).

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Discussion

I think the per post model is interesting and it's something that #[3] and I have been discussing for a future nostrplebs.com relay. NIP-05 ID registered users would get X amount of events before they would have to pay more.

I'm not technical - you might have noticed - but to me, spammers, as we see, post in crazy high volumes. People, even addicted people, could run to 500sats per post and not blink, but spammers, would.

"Dreams a bit".....first x posts 500sats per. Next x, 5000sats. Next x, 50000, adjust to whatever level stops spammers on the relay.

Thinks - if relays noticed the same content, or substantially the same, being reposted, throw up an invoice or human test.

No doubt our devs have many long days ahread of them :-)