I'm not sure you can ever have those conversations because those words are just slogans.
No one knows what any social terms mean because they're never testable.
It's exactly the same with words like misogyny on one side and wokery on the other. They're really just weapons people use to get their own way.
Liberal is the classic example in the USA. When people use it they mean to pick a side. It had no actual meaning at all.