100% agree. This is super clear from an outsider perspective as an #atheist
Discussion
She is hilarious
This is awesome. But there's another solution... Hell, as portrayed by churches, is nonsense. All the spiritual but not religious people have that figured out on some level.
According to his own book which declares it was written by him to show how awesome he is.
Hid knowledge so that he could be the only special one who has it.
Punished people who weren't born until thousands of years later because 2 people wanted to learn.
Murdered all but 8 living humans.
Firebombed 2 cities killing everyone for doing sex wrong.
Declared the guy who offered his own daughter to be gangraped "just" and worthy of saving.
All powerful but repeatedly chooses mass murder as punishment over using his power to just stop the thing he doesn't like.
Denied everyone bacon rather than teaching them to cook it to well done.
We aren't even half way through the old testament here.
If this god is real he is a villain not worthy of worship. Christians are abused housewives begging to have their abuser back.
If I ever came to believe in the supernatural again it wouldn't be to become a member of any branch of worshipping that false god.
Have you found any version of gnosticism yet? Cuz you're not the first to have noticed these things.
Most of those stories are allegorical. You'd have to know the meaning of the symbols for it to make any sense. The problem is, the religion selects for "true believers," as does any organization. The more crazy, the more they prove they're true believers. Antifa is the same. Or any organization where the game is about getting power. This process leads away from truth and principles. The goal posts are always receding, and qualifying as a member of the organization requires passing ever more absurd purity tests, and the organization benefits by losing the members who aren't crazy enough because crazy core can do crazier things. Its an Antichrist version of self sacrifice, exactly the same as the tearful adoring crowds that used to gather in Red Square.
Any of those things you referenced can be explained rationally and symbolically. Verrrrry few people inside of the religion can do that, though, because their presence in the religion is proof that they are irrational -- but not for the reasons usually given by atheists.
This is basically the original reason for Christianity, this decay of previous religion. It is truly meant to repudiate Judaism and correct its errors, **_not imitate them._** This is why I say most Christians are actually Jews, and I don't say that with any malice towards Jews, its just a fact.
I know my position about the judeochristian god being a false idol is common in esoterica.
The issue from where I sit is gnostics and esoterica have supernatural beliefs and I don't. If I came to believe in the supernatural tomorrow that's where I'm most likely to land in the world of religion.
I find interesting insights and morals in Judeo-Christian texts. I can say the same about Odin's quest for wisdom in Norse lore. I'm more hesitant to discuss any of the value of any of Judeo christian text because people have been propagandized their entire life to take those things literally and seriously leading to ruin for them. When I talk about the morals in Odin's story or other things generally accepted as fiction I take less risk of leading people to lunacy.
You aren't the first to notice that group beliefs tend towards extremism, this formalizes the idea well.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ZQG9cwKbct2LtmL3p/evaporative-cooling-of-group-beliefs
Yes, when I was a believer I thought people arent faithful enought, now that Im an atheist, I think the same. Normies just follow the herd.
this is a pretty shit take. her thesis is that someone who is really religious must make that their whole life? that's insane. the fundamentalists she's referring to are the ones who have made it their whole life. that's why they only talk about it. and there's a reason they are ostracized by regular culture. because regular people go other shit going rather than constantly worry about other people being sent to hell.
Hell as taught isn't exactly the sort of thing any sane person could just not worry about.
You'd have to be a sociopath to truly believe people you know and care about are going to be tortured with fire for an eternity and do nothing.
there's a difference between being concerned with others but recognizing you cant make them care, "lead a horse to water" and all that, and only ever talking about "saving" those around you. you would never accomplish anything if all you did was concern yourself with the damnation of others.
I'm not a religious person. but it seems ridiculous to conclude truly religious people are only those going to an early grave from keeping their minds in a constant state of emergency because those they care about are not as anxious about those around them as they are.
But if you are a true believer why worry about an early grave? Heaven or paradise or whatever is what is waiting for you.
Interesting. What if your religion is fundamentally, wait for people to have questions and be helpful but it is a personal journey? Buddhist philosophy is not about guiding others. The doctrine was basically other people saying "How do we become as cool as you?"
Belief in the spiritual reality is fundamentally personal and if you aren't a fanatic by nature, you would never do what she is describing. Mentioning sugar, versus the danger of an oncoming car the social cost of alerting someone is waaaay more extreme. If I tell you about a car that is coming for you 10 years from now with the intensity of one several feet away is a social cost most won't bear, even if they believe it. She's funny and making a funny point but it's not a serious argument really.
Holding up Buddhism as a counter to a critique of the branches and children of Judaism is pretty absurd.
You don't know and can't know if you have 10 years or 10 seconds to save me before I die.
I don't believe in that religion so, I don't have a firm place to argue from hence the Buddhism reference which is what I subscribe to.
And my perspective is that I speak as if you have 1000 years to live but know that you don't. So, I am never severe regardless. Also, my perspective is not that I am saving you only giving you more information to save yourself.
I know Buddhism well enough to say that it was not under attack in the video.
The big divide is reincarnation. If I whiff this life I get to try again next life. If I move down even the lowest form on earth is better than Christian Hell. All just part of their path.
Christianity and related religions believe you get exactly 1 shot. Then either heaven or hell. No in between, no second chances, never to switch after initial assignment at death. That is where her questioning their sense of urgency comes from.
Ancient Christians believed in reincarnation, as do modern Jews. The belief was outlawed by Emperor Justinian and punished with death. Since then, Christians have had no understanding of what Hell or Heaven mean.
No one thinks of reincarnation as a second shot, though, not even the Buddhists. Its to be avoided, if possible.
To be avoided if possible, sure. That is a very different level of urgency than the western concept of heaven and hell.