have you tried to implement a client for any other protocol? nostr is not complicated.
just because a few devs went crazy with nips doesn’t mean you have to implement them.
Discussion
nostr is not complicated, are you kidding me? the devs that went crazy (which is like most devs pretty much), they didn't go crazy outside of nostr, in some sandbox, they did it inside, so you can't just pretend the result of all that craziness is some kind of optional add on. It's air pollution, it's everywhere, you can't not breath it in.
I built a working version of damus in a weekend, its not complicated
compare that weekend to now is what I'm saying. I'll bet that was before 32 baskin robbins of relays, and bunkers, and giftwraps, and MLS, and Cashu, and DVMs and double ratchets, and caching servers, and I don't know what else. bluetooth?
Everything you listed can be ignored. None of the things you have listed is in damus for example. You pick the level of complexity you want to expose yourself to.
You're also a phenom 🤣
But yes, NIP overload is a real thing. Few are needed.
from the perspective of users it is extremely complicated. I understand that from the perspective of a competent developer it is not complicated, but ideally from the perspective of users it should function relatively equivalently to the very earliest Twitter clients and interface. Extremely minimal and simple. And everything should just work. If the average hears that there are different protocol formats for DMs, you have completely lost the plot and the game
I run my own relay. Boost::beast with a nostr module written in about 1 week of discovering nostr, only nip1 initially. I still run it and its been loads of fun.
that's good. but this wider nostr you're participating in, it's gotten crazy complex. "nostr is what you make of it" is a cop out. nostr is a thing in and of itself, and that thing in and of itself has ubercomplexificated out of control.
perhaps you have more experience than me here, but it seems to be a really simple system for sending messages which happen to have a type. this means that other client can add significance to those types.
For example, if I wanted to offer my small and medium clients an interactive platform for communication, I would certainly build on nostr. Why not? It's practically build.
For sure, a contained nostr deployment is a very good idea, like for a company.
Nostr in the wild though is scary, you've probably not ventured far out there yet. You mentioned sending messages. How about *direct* messages? There are like 12 different DM specs on Nostr. You right now have no idea how to DM me. If you send me a NIP-04 DM will it work? Maybe you should try a NIP-17 DM also, just to be safe. Or maybe try me on Keychat? Or maybe MLS on White Noise, I could be on that. Or Maybe double ratchet on IRIS. Try them all and maybe, just maybe, I'll get your DM.
Yes, the refusal to create a good standard and agree to it, and the number of app developers who insist on an old dysfunctional NIP and the need for backwards compatibility creating massive technical debt.
This needs to be like cryptographic standards. People need to be able to agree that there is a specific way a feature is going to be done on Nostr, and that any clients which refuse to adhere to the standard and come up with a timeline for the phasing out of the support of the old standards need to be delisted from places like nostr.com/net/org/how — this shit is fucking atrocious for new users. 90% of the people I try to get on Nostr get confused and quit. Normal people do not need to be hearing the phrase “NIP” unless it is a slur against the Japanese.
truth be told, I am also unclear if I need to implement anything on my relay to support DMs, my understanding at this point is that I do not.
I suck at tech and nostr is pretty easy for me. Struggled with nostr:npub1getal6ykt05fsz5nqu4uld09nfj3y3qxmv8crys4aeut53unfvlqr80nfm at first, but once you get it, it’s a game changer.
Welcome aboard, the learning curve is sharp but once you get the hang of it you'll look at trad social media as stuck in the past
What do you do with @alby ?
