#capitalism doesn’t give a shit about human workers or animals they use for profit. Just fucking sad.
#bitcoin #proofofwork #thoughtstr #nostr #capitalismsucks
Discussion
what does the article have to do with capitalism?
They profited off of the Orca. Now that there is no profit involved, the Orca suffers. Capitalism exploits labor and resources for profit.
So if they didn’t make a profit and let visitors in for free it would be okay?
No, it still would not be “okay”. However, it does make it WORSE that they DID make a profit and now neglect these highly intelligent animals.
no it doesnt make it worse or better. its completely irrelevant.
Could be subjective I guess but I think it makes it worse. You made money on these animals for a period of time, the very least you could do is not let their upkeep degrade while looking for a new home.
There are many more examples of how humans are treated horribly under capitalism. We can discuss those too if you like.
You aren’t getting it.
Again, is treating people horribly better “under” any other economic system better than treating people horribly under capitalism?
April is an evil month because so many evil things have occurred in April!
No, you are not getting it. This was posted as another example of the evils that happen under capitalism. See, capitalism is paraded around today like the savior. I’m here to offer up opposition with historical and present day examples. Hopefully that helps you understand.
It’s not helping at all. You need to draw a causal connection, not cherry picked examples.
Do you have a preferable economic system?
Where is this society without the mistreatment of people and animals that you are alluding too? Is it in the room with us now?
I apologize you could not see my very clear and precise connection. Definitely was not cherry picking like one does with verses in a religious doctrine.
Yes, I prefer a economic system based n “proof of work”, no rent seeking behavior, and where we embrace innovation that has greatly reduced the amount of labor hours needed to provide for not just ourselves but everybody.
You last questions are intellectually silly, like having a society where animals are not abused, mistreated just for entertainment and then discarded when they are no longer useful is asking too much. But I’ll be your huckleberry. Yes, quite a few societies historically and present day don’t use abuse animals for no reason: Native American cultures, South American cultures (present/past), some sects of modern Indian cultures, tribes in Africa. And there are many people today that choose to live a lifestyle where they attempt to not harm any animal called vegans.
So, yes, in the room with me is my wife and child, we all treat others the way we want to be treated…all animals with respect.
Got any other brain busters for me?
No, you are just saying “here is an example of x in y”. That is not causal. There are plenty of examples of “x in z”.
The reason innovation doesn’t reduce labor hours is because people prefer to work the same amount or more to get more when technology improves. We don’t innovate to cut back labor. We innovate to make our lives better. The amount we work is only one factor.
I asked for examples of societies where humans AND animals are treated well and you totally ignored the human part and listed societies without enough technology to meaningfully abuse animals instead.
Have you ever seen how native americans fish now that they have modern technology? They string nets across the river and shoot whales with 50 cals. Just because they say thank you to mother nature afterwards doesn’t make it better.
Abuse of animals and humans happens because there is shitty people, not because of the economic system.
You are making my point for me when bringing up vegans and your family. You realize vegans and your family exist in a capitalistic society right? Did capitalism cause good people to be good or do only examples of bad count?
Capitalism is an economic system, not a moral one. You keep insisting that because immorality occurs in capitalism, capitalism is the cause.
I can look at any society (the ones you listed as your examples of where animals are treated well) and there will be immorality, regardless of the economic system in place.
I appreciate your perspective and the nuances you bring to this discussion. It’s true that human behavior and morality can’t be neatly tied to any economic system. Each society has its complexities, and while some may misuse technology, others find innovative ways to coexist with nature. It’s a multifaceted issue that deserves ongoing dialogue. Let’s keep exploring these layers together! 🌍✨
Sounds good to me.
I live in America, are you saying America runs on capitalism? Surely you don’t want to open up that can of worms.
Yes, bad actors with ill intent everywhere BUT capitalism is based off of increasing profits at all costs and centralizing capital/wealth.
Unfortunately you believe in this false dichotomy and want to assume I support something I don’t.
Your flaw…yes your cognitive dissonance is you can’t admit that capitalism is not sustainable BECAUSE it is immoral and unethical.
And your comment about “people prefer to work same amount of hours” is absolute subjective horseshit. I can’t even begin to wrapped my head around why you would say that.
Its not subjective horseshit, it is an objective fact. Look around. People now have way more than we used to and we work more or less the same amount of time. If people wanted to work 5 minutes a day instead of 8 hours because we are now 96 times more productive and have the same lifestyle as some historic person then they would be doing that.
Incorrect, you are assuming that if you eliminated profits we WOULDNT have even more AND have to work way less. We work on average the same amount because compensation has not increased and capital centralizing to a few. We have more with same hours BECAUSE technology has increased so much IN SPITE OF capitalisms exploitation.
You can’t eleminate profits and have more. Having more than than you started with is what a profit is.
Also incorrect. That is not the definition of profit. I can improve my life, my shelter, without it costing anyone or the environment more than what it took to achieve said goal.
profit is revenue-costs
all i am getting from that is “ i can… profit… without it costing anyone or the environment more than what it took to achieve said goal.”
I agree. kind of, except for that what it takes to achieve the goal is the cost.
Profits are not seperate from costs. They are the postive difference. hence revenues/benefits minus cost = profit = more
If we want to redefine profit we need to include the costs to the others and the environment when calculating it. If you are making that argument then I agree.
That absolutely is not the same as eliminating profits.
Profit is what’s left after costs. Cost is labor plus material.
Second part of your response, no, take out profit cause that’s not the definition…then yes.
Yes, there is cost in everything. Risk vs reward.
No need to redefine profit. Just understand all the dynamics it entails.
Yes, you can eliminate profits. You can also redistribute profits to the labor, or customer. I’m not asking, this happens now.
ok you just said profit is whats left after costs. how is that not more?
around and around we go. i know im just talking to some communist professor in your past at this point.
eliminate profits
redistribute others people shit.
no thanks. i want to have something left after my costs.
It is more than what was needed.
lol, never went to college and I don’t agree with all communist principles, nor socialism, or capitalism. I’m very objective, pragmatic.
Incorrect, you are not redistributing “other people’s shit”. The “other people” are stealing or exploiting for personal gain…also known as greed or more than what is necessary.
You will have something, it’s calculated in the costs. If there is more left over, lower your price, or give back equally to all the labor that actually produces for you.
Now I understand where you are hung up. You want yours. We all do. And you will get yours, just on a proof of work standard.
I can tell I’m talking to someone significantly younger than me and inexperienced, so I will dial back my condescension.
where i am hung up is that you are making no sense. profits are good. having more than you need is good. producing more than your costs is good. having a need does not mean that someone else is obligated to fulfill it.
the only people you are convincing that profits are bad are people with no profits that feel entitled to the profits of others.
Just keep pondering it. I wasn’t convinced with my first confrontation with it. Keep asking questions.
I’ve been in charge of a lot and a little, for whatever it’s worth. For profit is unsustainable.
Just so you know, again, I’m not asking. I have personally run a profit sharing company, as well as a traditional capitalistic company. I’m retired at a pretty early age, don’t want to work, don’t need to acquire more. I’m content with letting others pick fruit while I enjoy life.
As far as your fishing example, being grateful DOES have everything to with it. Also, not taking more than is needed, being sustainable. You think you are better than Native American people from 1000 years ago because you can exploit for profit? Do you honestly think they had no ability to exploit if the desire was there? Goddamn exceptionalism is thick in here. You can’t even fathom a world without profit because you are so fucking indoctrinated. Pull your finger out of your ass.
Being grateful when being sustainable is good. But driving up to a whale in a motor boat, spearing it with a spear, and then shooting it with a 50 cal, or netting a whole river of salmon is either wrong or not. Being grateful and performing a ritual afterwords does not undo that.
I didn’t say anything about being better now. I am saying that being less technologically advanced means they were more limited in thier ability to do harm. They did “exploit”. Just not as effectively. That is what technology enables. They didn’t have the technology to do the wrongs that we have today.
Native Americans are just as susceptible to moral failure as anyone else.
We aren’t better. We are the same.
Our moral progress has not kept up with our technological or economic progress. That is a moral failng, not a technological or economic one.
I agree with your first paragraph.
Second paragraph is pure speculation based on your psychology and experiences…hence why I said you have a bad case of “exceptionalism”.
Yes Native Americans were/are susceptible to immoral behavior…although they were all but completely victims to irradiation and assimilation by capitalists.
Agree wholeheartedly with last paragraph, but you do still fail to see that capitalism is derived from and a means to the worst of our immoral abilities.
