Trezor is so aware that secure elements are an element of trust that it has kept the secure sd function in its Trezor 5 model with secure element.

When someone doesn't talk about this transparently it just comes across to me as a scammer.

There are also many critics of Jade because they call their virtual protection secure element mocking that it does not have secure element when it is one of the most elegant solutions in the industry for this problem.

Jade simply uses a multi-signature model to protect the seed (Local + remote server), thus avoiding having to use a secure element.

I never listen to this discussion on podcast.