Yeah it probably wouldn't be hard to do, a simple "if note is type x, do y" I imagine.
But again, I don't see the point of it. Moderation needs to happen client side, I don't take any responsibility for moderating anything on the relay, it's just a back-end service that is not monitored.
relays need to moderate to save resources, being permissionless everyone will do it their way and whats best will become common
i believe there will be a core group of freespeech users that only report real spam and most relays and users will use them
I take a slightly different view, first I'll say that Strfry has so far been the most lightweight thing I have ever hosted.
Seriously, I gave it 4 cores and 16GB of RAM because I wasn't sure what it needed. The CPU graph doesn't register any usage at all and RAM's under 1GB, shit's ridiculous.
The DB size is under 100MB after a month of running. I know my relay is small, but shit that's super light. For context, I hosted a Lemmy instance for a while and that shit was gobbling up ~10GB per day at one point.
Anyway, where I'm going with this is moderating individual notes does nothing to conserve resources. Relays do need to stay on top of spam trends, so for example if I notice another crypto bot bullshit that my current filter doesn't capture, I need to modify it so that it does. But deleting individual spam notes is more effort than it's worth.
I think what you describe will happen client side, and my hope is clients will retain the ability for users to choose what's right for them.
Awesome to hear. Nostr needs to be tokenized so you relays can cover costs and make money, and encourage more relays to join to increase decentralized effect.
there is paid relays, p2p is a better solution
most relays are just duplicating data and are not needed
all media is centralized on http servers and needs to be decentralized
Relays are meant to duplicate data, that's a good thing, it means if you get banned by one or several of them, it doesn't matter.
The more relays carry your shit, the better.
Decentralized media is tricky because of all the legal implications, e.g. how do you deal with the child porn? I certainly hope relays remain text only.
over duplication is wasteful, you have the storage which is not massive but the network overhead is the main problem especially on mobile
you really only need 2 or 3 copies, enough that you have backups
having your content on lots of relays doesnt necessarily solve banning, what if you only share one relay in common with someone and thats the one that bans you? to solve banning we need robust discoverablity which is what nip65 is an attempt at but better will come like a dht for npub relay info
you can upload illegal content on centralized servers now, there is illegal text too, i would guess to solve the illegal content for decentralized providers we would need lists of illegal hashes which btw is how some centralized providers do it too
I agree it is a struggle on mobile and you're right on the discoverability bit being key. I just think in general you don't want to be dependent on only a handful of relays. Between getting banned by a couple and others disappearing, you may find your history gone one day.
Thankfully relays duplicate notes to each other to a certain extent as their users interact with other relay users. So ideally we all have a handful of relays in common, but more relays that we post to overall. Good discoverability may just solve this organically.
The illegal content situation is a massive issue for a small provider. There's just too much risk associated with it and it's not easy to get access to those hash based options.
Centralized servers do solve for it, but they typically have the resources and access to those specialized services. My view is there are enough large providers to have sufficient choice, and things like bit-torrent also exist to absolutely guarantee you can still make files available.
Illegal text is not in the same league in my view and it's much easier to deal with.
well ideally we will do something like bittorrent with nostr but better, there is a protocol call iroh that is a rethink of ipfs that seems like the solution, it will allow us to directly hash files to address them like notes are which is not something ipfs or bittorrent can do, it uses a new hash called blake3 to do this
if governments want illegal content removed they will need to provide access to a hash list otherwise we will darkweb lol
This thread is 100%, absolutely spot on. None of this glassy eyed blind worship shit. Real problems, real attempts at solutions.
Paid relays can't scale. Users are fleeing Elon because of paywalling. Here you would have to pay multiple relays for redundancy. Network effect will never engage. Same logic for paid Clients.
Tokenization combined with ads is the solution for incentivizing all stakeholders. Fixed supply token issuance. Advertisers buy a token, and pay that token to relays, clients, users, and creators in exchange for advertising (or really, boosting visibility). Because that's all feed advertising is.
This rewards users/clients/relays and keeps them sustainable. To cash out users/clients/relays simply sell their tokens to the next crop of advertisers for ad slots. And so on. Perfect tokenomics. Slightly tricky mechanical implementation.
Agree, excessive duplication is wasteful, but is more robust. That's the downside of any decentralization. It sacrifices efficiency for censorship resistance. Centralization is ALWAYS more efficient, but you get censor risk. Tradeoffs. In this era of mob rule, censorship resistance is taking precedence.
Illegal content. Agree. Tricky issue. He who holds it, becomes the target. It basically has to be darkweb. Of course no one supports child porn in any way. So it's tricky.
I think really the solution ends up: Content Sovereignty. All accts need to act as their own relay. Self hosted. Instead of relying on a few 3rd party relays who could go rogue. Of course this is possible now, but I haven't figured how to build a relay, so it's not dummy friendly.
But if everyone is their own relay, then a user subscribes to not only the account, but its attached relay as well. Package deal. This way 3rd party relays aren't risking users "driving it like a rental" and possessing incriminating content on their 3rd party relay.
The client would then populate feeds from all the people you follow, directly from their self-hosted relays. Infinite decentralization. Content sovereign. Also much easier to fairly tokenize, since a content creator is bundled in with a relay, they're being rewarded for both.
I guess the problem with this structure is, government "pruning". If gov finds your wrongthink, they attack you directly and throw you in jail. That is if they can track down your anon handle, VPN obscured IP, etc. It's easier for them to sniff out individuals, than a group. Maybe. Also clients still remain a potential ban point, not sure the solution here.
But this is the right convo to be having. Big respect to you 2.
There are a bunch of paid relays and you do have the ability to send me zaps for example.
Personally I don't like the idea of paid relays.
I'm doing it because I can and want to contribute. I welcome people using my relay, since that way I know I'll always be able to see what they say / they won't disappear because other relays dropped them. Not that it has happened yet, but you never know.
relays have banned npubs and ips
i think these platform supporting micropayments will only really work in a p2p situation where you can also earn easily inside the network, likely with its own token system not using a blockchain
You're right, I was more thinking that I haven't noticed anyone be disappeared, but I'm sure it's happened.
I agree that would be interesting.
I do agree that main moderation should be for most part on client side.
However i don't feel at ease at not being able to have some kind of moderation on relay side.
For many reasons i should be able to decide what kind of content is on my relay or not.
e.g : i might not want to host content from users that is illegal in the country where my relay is based.
I believe reports can help into identifying hosted content that does not comply with your relay policy, however i agree with the NIP-56 recommendation onto avoiding to automate moderation through reports.
