Hallucinations are not evidence. Other religions have similar things, try again đ´
Discussion
Literally has nothing to do with hallucinations but okay. If youâre talking about the resurrection, with all due respect, your lack of knowledge on âhallucinationsâ is very apparent. Even atheist/agnostic researcher would agree impossible that it was a hallucination given the number of eye witnesses involved.
If you have any real interest in exploring, and asking for an honest starting point: There is a book called the Case for Christ. Written by an atheist to disprove Christianity. Lead to complete opposite conclusion. Proof of work, if you will. Maybe start there and see if maybe your own research is missing something.
Testimonials from Christâs friends are also not evidence đ
There are witness testimonials of Muhammad ascending to the heavens. Why donât you be Muslim?
You mean the thousands of people the witnessed Christ ascension into heaven were all his friends?
You should read Lee Strobles book. Award winning investigative journalist came to a very different conclusionâŚ
Would love to see any research that supports your Muhammad claim. Were there thousands of witnesses? Funny thing is when I researched, was pretty apparent zero witnesses. Some claim it was a âspiritualâ journey vs actual ascension. Can you share any good book to start where someone goes to great lengths to investigate and finds a lot of sound research that support this story, outside of the Quran?
It seems like you have the narrative wrong. Jesus only revealed himself to his disciples. There were not thousands of witnesses. Even then, witnessing something over 2000 years ago is not relevant proof today. All these claims canât be proven.
Itâs also funny that you want research for the claim that people witnessed Muhammadâs ascent to heaven but youâre perfectly fine accepting that Jesus rose from the dead. Both acts are impossible but you have a bias that lets you disregard logic when it comes to your religion.
I canât share any books because I donât really care. Itâs not a great use of your time but this was the first thing that came up on Google:
https://www.quora.com/Was-there-any-witness-to-Muhammads-ascent-to-heaven
Youâre missing the point though. Why donât you read the books written by atheists who converted to Hinduism or Buddhism or Islam? Why not read about Scientology? What about all the religions of ancient native Americans? What about the indigenous tribes living in Alaska? For hundreds of years these people were isolated from your religion. Are they all going to hell? They never even heard of Jesus and when they did it was forced upon them. Read about native Americans being tortured and killed for refusing to accept Jesus as lord and savior. Why should they believe you? Your claims are not facts. They canât be proven. Your religion is no better than any other. It lacks logic like the rest of them.
I don't understand or like it that it has now become a staple of bitcoin culture to be deeply christian or spiritual. Not all liberty minded people are religious, and not all atheists are commies.
Historically it has been the opposite. The Austrian economists were atheists and religions have always required their followers to pay taxes to the church and redistribute wealth to the poor. âOh youâre not one of us? Burn him alive!â I believe thereâs a misunderstanding of history among these people. They romanticize the past as if it was a better time. A time when slavery was common and women were property. Why doesnât religion end these things? Nobody talks about this dirty side.
Yet many of the Austrians today are Catholic and Christian. Why?
There are ones that are also Jewish. Saifedean is Muslim. Pretty sure there are Hindu and Buddhist Austrian economists too. So which way do we go now? My point was the original ideas were born from atheists because they go against religious teachings that require taxation and redistribution of wealth. They are Austrian economists despite their religious backgrounds not because of it. They are not the norm.
The way of Truth. Iâll pray my daily rosary for you every day this week. God bless.
Many Bitcoiners - at least those I know - are generally interested in pursuing truth, hence why they are bitcoiners. If you had curiosity, you may wonder why so many end up being ChristiansâŚand actual dig into that. But many that own bitcoin arenât interested in truth - just NGU
Haha I have the narrative wrong?! Okay. May I suggest you do a liiiitttle more research...my goodness. I also love how history from 2000 years ago (which is incredibly well documented and preserved) gets dismissed for literally being old. Hilarious. Funniest thing is all these falsehoods youâre spewing are literally addressed in the one pretty easy to read book I recommended, and you can look at the numerous citations. All in all, you arenât actually interested in verifying, but comfortable being literally wrong.
As for my last request - âAny books you can recommend?â You literally pointed me to a BLOG!
You said he revealed himself to thousands of people after his resurrection. Thatâs not true.
You seem like a nice guy but just not very smart. Hereâs a tip for you to use in future arguments. Before you make a claim, make sure that your opponent canât use the same argument to make the opposite claim against you. Saying that your religion is right because a book said so isnât very different from saying your religion is wrong because a book said so. If you have evidence provide it yourself. There are historians that have argued Jesus never even existed lmao search that on Google and youâll see plenty of books on the subject. If you just tell me to read this book, then youâre putting the burden of proof on me. Thatâs like accusing someone of a crime and expecting them to prove their innocence. You made a claim about your religion and then told me to read a book for evidence. Well Iâm telling you to read the countless books that prove Jesus never existed. See how this isnât productive?
Instead of telling me to read a book, you should give me the evidence yourself. Give me some proof. Give me a logical explanation as to why I should believe you. But there isnât any. I know there isnât because Iâve talked with countless other religious people that know a lot more than you. They try to make logical arguments then eventually fall back and say itâs faith: pray to god and he will show you the way. đ´
And yeah I pointed you to a blog because i told you I didnât read a book on the subject. Are you autistic or something? Lmao why would I waste my time reading all these books when there is a fundamental flaw with all religions. They are all illogical and based on faith. So there is no objective rational way to pick the right one. If you think Iâm wrong prove it yourself. If not then move on.
So you would know that claim of 500 âwitnessâ comes from St. Paul as he writes to the Greeks. Which, as a collective, were very skepticalâŚbut you know this already.
Yet he put a hard number on this. Why? It would be easy to rebuke if not true.
You would also know that in tradition at the time, 500 would refer to grown men that could serve as a âwitnessâ and testimony. So anyone that actually studies history would agree that 500 witnesses would be men, and likely at least double that number in persons that wouldnât be able to serve at âwitnessesâ. But okay.
Now youâre changing your claims and using the Bible as evidence again. This is like saying the Pfizer vaccine is safe and effective because Pfizer said so. And then you keep repeating that Pfizer said itâs safe and effective. âJesus is god because the Bible said so.â I already told you there are other books that say Jesus never existed and never rose from the dead. Why should I believe you over them? Seriously answer this one simple question. Why should I believe your books over these other books written by atheists? Give me a good answer Iâm getting bored now, weâve been going in circles đ´
No I am using what documentation existed at the time.
Answer: because truth is truth, regardless of whether you want to accept it or not.
Peace!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zT04pR_2_S0
I found this video very thought provoking from a bioethicist, mathematician and who went graduated from Cambridge.
Thanks for sharing. Itâs an interesting opinion but that is all it is.
John 14:6 says: I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
You can argue that itâs out of context or that Iâm interpreting it wrong but this does not mean that there is an objective interpretation. They are all interpretations and, therefore, opinions.
I believe nothing is 100% provable. I follow evidence. The Bible is accurate scientifically, archeological, historically and the messianic prophecies that have come true with 100% accuracy are huge (even from secular/non Christian sources such as Tacitus, Pliny the younger, etc).
I do however, stray from most âreligious peopleâ in that I believe if everyone is made in Godâs image, they all deserve the right to question, offer their insights/opinions, share ideas without it having to be a âIâm right, youâre wrong debateâ.
We are all trying to make it in life, understand pain and suffering, answer the whyâs, explore, etc.
I am currently reading the Quran, and Iâve studied many, many belief systems. If I want to get answers, if they can be given, concerning the afterlife and where I will spend eternity, I want to research myself and follow the evidence.
I disagree that it is accurate. All religious texts are subject to interpretation, that's why they all have gatekeepers (e.g. priests, sheikhs, rabbis, monks). Most religions have enacted violence on people that interpret the texts differently. Look at the conflicts between sunni and shia muslims or the conflict between catholics and protestants in the dark ages. The protestant movement was literally a result of differing interpretations of the same text. Well if a text is subject to interpretation, then it isn't objective. That nullifies the existence of scientific accuracy. Religious texts cannot be scientifically accurate. It doesn't even make sense. Science is a process where you develop a hypothesis and repeatedly conduct experiments in order to test the hypothesis. You can't test these stories. You can't conduct a double blind placebo controlled experiment on the book of John. The people that shill religion and say that it is proven by science are either ignorant or dishonest. What they claim to be science is merely a coincidental correlation. For example, this ancient text says that if the people fornicate then they will be damned and their society will crumble. If the society crumbles, then they claim the text is scientific. That is not how science works and that is not science. Most societies eventually change or collapse regardless of their religious beliefs. There are also cultures and tribes that do fornicate and have no issues. So what is the response that is given when the damnation never comes? They always say god is all knowing and we can't comprehend his wisdom and that they will receive their punishment in the afterlife. Do you see how this is not scientific at all? The rules are not bounded in reality. When they claim something will happen and it does they say rejoice in gods glory. But when it doesn't happen, they rejoice in gods wisdom.
Instead of answering my question, you sent me links to biased articles. This one specifically makes false claims with no sources to back it. Iâm not reading any other articles you send because youâve wasted my time with this one. 
Believe what you want to. Itâs your right my friend
Interesting video. Context and citing Old Testament ârulesâ that donât apply anymore are statements made out of ignorance or anger.
He can have that opinion.
Interesting also that people attack God because of ignorant/arrogant Christianâs actions, false teachers/leaders or bad experiences with a church. Actually God probably wasnât guiding their actions/words in the first place. It was the Christianâs on self righteousness that was guiding them.
Anyway, have a good day
The same god wrote those rules that donât apply anymore. Was he wrong? Why did he change his mind? This all invalidates the claim that he has perfect knowledge. Of course Iâm sure youâll say that we cannot comprehend his wisdom. Iâve heard all these arguments before
No mind change. That makes no sense. Jesusâ ultimate sacrifice for all people abolished old covenant rules to establish the new freeing covenant. Do your own extensive research.
