My heart totally goes out to these people. Wish the world didn't memory-hole them. 🥺
Man-made horrors beyond my comprehension, fr.
Discussion
I feel like the Americans have ordered us to ignore the fate of these people, but there is no Atlantic Ocean between the EU and Russia.
They can just walk here. This could be us.
“The world is full of broken children and broken-hearted parents because we failed to stop the war machine.”
—[Characteristically] Unknown
Most of those (not all unfortunately i guess) reports are lies circulating the internet because of propaganda https://www.newsweek.com/lyudmila-denisova-ukraine-commissioner-human-rights-removed-russian-sexual-assault-claims-1711680
This UN commission was specifically begun in 2022 (check the date of your article), due to her misreporting. This is the report from the UN, not from Ukraine. They are preparing a case for the ICC.
They found less rape of young women, than she had (sometimes falsely) reported, and much more of men (detainees) and older women (female relatives and wives of detainees, mostly). They say it appears to be done systematically, usually by the Rosgvardia and the FSB, not the army.
They do this to their own soldiers and prisoners, too, after all. I don't know why we expect them to treat Ukrainians better than Russians.
Yes i noticed it was from the UN and i have no reason not to believe it. And they do very well to make a case to the ICC. Just not fall into "panic" because all of these stories. Many are fake and i am not talking about the UN story. In fact there are other clues also that there are scums among the russian soldiers (ukranian soldiers too of course). Recently for example some scum rusdians soldiers convicted because the killed a hero of Donbass called Bentley who was a great supporter of Russia. Here is an article from RT (which is russian and that is wjy i use it now) https://www.rt.com/news/606648-russia-russell-bentley-murder/
But why you say they do that to their own soldiers? Where that comes from?
They've always used sexual torture and humiliation to punish lower-ranking soldiers and interrogate political prisoners. That's not something they started with the war. They do that in Russia, too. Russia isn't the EU, after all.
I have no Idea why everyone is such a fan of Russia, nowadays. It reminds me of how everyone thought Cuba was so great, back in the 80s. No, Cuba was a shithole. Russia is a shithole.
No. There has to be some source for such claims. You see after the last greek civil war (we had three the previous century alone) many greek communists fled to the soviet union. Then some returned during the 90s. I personally know quite a few of them who were soldiers there. Most of them after the fall of soviet union. I have heard a lot of stories from them. What you say doesn't sound true.
As for why many people support Russia, it is because they are right on this one. Putin didn't wake up one day and decided to invade Ukraine...
They returned over 25 years ago and we know about the propensity to torture from the East German archives. My family was mostly in East Germany and Czech Republic, behind the Wall. They were pretty terrible, but Russia has always been much worse.
Putin was in Berlin for the KGB, remember? That's why he speaks fluent German. He didn't become a different person, just because they elected him to President. They literally elected a Soviet spook and he's been in charge for nearly a quarter century. Russia doesn't have real elections, just coronations.
It's a shithole. It's always been a shithole.
Oh, i have no doubt that soviet union was horrible and that kgb tortured people in horrible ways.
That does not justify what happens now though and still there has to be evidence that russians torture their own soldiers in such ways.
Meanwhile today the only place i know where people are there because they have been kidnapped and have been tortured without any charges against them, is the Usa base of Guadanamo and the torture has been approved by Barak Obama who has been given the Oscar price for peace...
The countries the Guantanamo guys come from don't want them back. Every time we sent some back (we have), they went right back to local terrorism or ended up in prison again.
I'm sorry, but the idea that the USA is torturing people, but Russia isn't, because the USA admits to it and Russia doesn't, is incredibly childish. The West is the only culture where you save face by confessing, and where there are activist journalists and lawyers uncovering everything and publishing it. That doesn't mean they're the only ones who ever do anything wrong, it means they're the only ones with at least the remnants of a free press and civil rights.
Nobody knows what is going on in Russia. Even the Russians in Russia don't know.
No again. I said the exact opposite. Which is that we can't blame Russia only for torturing and exclude USA and the west in general. Usa and the west have fallen to barbarism and they are the main sponsors and contributors of terrorism today. As for the press, no again. It was the west that banned rt and sputnik immediately while bbc still operates in Russia. Russian citizens know more about what is happening comparing to western citizens. And Russia is not a place that brugs about free press. That is how much the west has fallen to barbarism and propaganda. We are not in the (previous?) cold war now. Don't judge by standards of decades ago.
Look around you. How many Russians are working on Nostr?
That is not an indicator i think. Linus Torvalds expelling the russian contributors that maintained the linux kernel is surely an indicator.
I used to watch RT because of Keiser Report. They liked him because he crapped on America, but never complained about Russia.
Of course, he kept right on living in America. He's biased, not insane.
Just different and divided memories. War makes the worst of men.
If they were still alive you should just hear my grandpas' opinion on Germany and Germans.
Listen to Germans talking about war crimes and thinking about my family stories makes me crazy every time.
I read a really thought-provoking article back in 2004 or so, comparing regimes in terms of how much of the population is regarded as part of the "torturable classes". Obviously this can never be a hard metric, but its an interesting framing.
Here in Australia, maybe the poorest 20% can be tortured by security forces without fear of repercussions. In Saddam Hussein's Iraq it was close to 100% of the population, if first person accounts I've heard are to be believed.
Russia and Ukraine would fall somewhere in the middle.
I have a low opinion of Russia's govt, but I have an even lower one of Ukraine's.
Ukraine has a crappy government, I agree. What I don't get is why anyone thinks that the enemy of Ukraine must be a good government. Two crappy governments are perfectly capable of fighting.
The enemy of my enemy can also be another enemy.
That said, I suspect Ukrainian infantry has it better than Russian infantry. Ukranians value their footsoldiers higher because they're drawn from more middle-class and working-class demographics, than from the underclass.
The underclass in Ukraine is also just generally smaller.
I remember sitting around on piquet on an exercise back in about 2006. 4am and raining. The other guy I knew only slightly, I've forgotten his family name, but his first name was Igor. His brother was in as well, thats why we were on first names.
"Igor", I said, "What was it like doing your National Service in the Russian army?".
He didn't say anything for about three minutes. I wondered if I'd offended him.
Finally he said "In the Russian army... you do a lot of digging." Heavy Russian accent, and spoken with an enormous finality. Can easily recall the moment, even now :D
Yeah, the Russian govt doesn't like to spend money, but their soldiers get very good at field fortification. There's bullying, there's drunkeness. Zero OH&S. Maybe not quite zero, they do teach them how to lift safely, which is more than the Israelis do. (Srsly...). But stuff gets done, steadily and unimaginatively.
I'm sure the Ukrainian army is exactly the same.
Bullying yes there is. In every army though...
And i am not talking about the full metal jacket 😀
100%.
I do think conscript armies have it much worse. No government gives a toss about conscripts - they're literally free as in beer, and if their families had any clout they would have gotten exemptions.
Finns I've spoken to have the least-negative experience of National Service. Theirs is merely useless. They leave knowing how to direct traffic, and how to salute snappily for the patriotic propaganda videos their govt makes. Waste of half a year.
Israelis I've spoken to have the most-negative reports. Airforce as well as Army. Pretty girls get used as sex toys by NCOs and officers, other girls learn cleaning and not much more. Boys learn to keep in step, and individual soldier skills, but no more than the first few weeks in any Western army. The issued equipment is third world, and they're not taught simple things like lifting procedures. No wonder they're doing poorly against people they out-gun thousands to one.
Conscription-based armies suck. I guarantee Ukrainian service in the combat zone is if anything even worse than Russian for exactly this reason.
Military service in Greece is mandatory. I could avoid that by declaring myself as a junkie (by being examined in the hospital if there is heroin in my blood) but i didn't. Mistake. Anyway i was a soldier for one year. Waste of time mainly. All armies suck. Especially conscript ones. So you are right...
The point of European conscription is actually recruitment to the professional military and fostering national solidarity. Not the same as dragging some alcoholic out of prison and throwing him at machine-gun fire.
What do you mean european conscription?
EU peacetime conscription, like military service.
Eu? There is no eu military yet. There is national conscription. And as in society, you can find every kind of person.
What i liked most in the army was when i was in the post of the car fuels during snowtime. No officers there. Only soldiers smoking hashish all day 🤩
My husband had air force service. Mostly cleaning stuff and running telephone cables in the woods and whatnot. And drinking beer. 😂
My sons' friend is serving a volunteer year, right now. Likes it and might sign up for the Bundeswehr, afterward.
Oh that cleaning stuff reminds me my main task. After the army sweeping the floor and eashimg the dishes seems a much easier task 😂
Volunteer year is a great program. But forcing people to serve in peacetime is militarily useless, economically wasteful, and serves only political objectives.
No it has its logic. Some otherwise civilians can indeed contribute to a fight.
Yes, but 100% of those are the same ones who would do a volunteer year
No. The whole point is that you have just a few soldiers, so you need mandatory service. For example if we had not Turkyie next to us with 70 million more population thsn us, we wouldn't have that. Same for the israeli occupation forces. Without conscripts they can not guard something more than their barraks. That is all...
I understand the problem, I just don't believe conscription fixes it.
The unpaid and unmotivated do not learn efficiently, and then get completely rekt in war.
But they let the government pretend its doing something, and also function as hostages in any domestic political crisis.
Britain, during the 1930s, had classes at highschool on weapons handling and basic fieldcraft. That would be my preferred model of compulsory service, by far.
Yeah it is that too in a way but think of this: conscripts can cover succesfully positions such as cookers, supplies, transports and of course guarding etc. So they release a significant number of fighting troops from other duties. Not all are fighting. A big number does not fight
Russia has exhausted its lower-ranking professionals. That's probably why they had to send the national guard there. Increasingly also a conscript army, and they're conscripting from the underclass.
Let's put it in girl terms: the chances that a Ukranian conscript is dateable are higher than by the Russians.
I mean, you remember that I called bullshit on the original rape-orgy propaganda, even though it freaked me out, because it struck me as contrary to the behavior of a European-led professional army. And I turned out to be right. There was, at least, nobody acting on orders or in a systematic manner.
This is different. I find it easy to believe that the people who have been terrorizing Russian dissidents for decades have no problem terrorizing ethnic Ukrainians. That's like pretending to be surprised that the CIA waterboarded someone or the CCP disappeared someone.
Okay, bad example, as I would generally prefer the Ukrainian. Dated one. On my radar. 😂
But, like, also theoretically.
Totally objective about this. Completely unbiased.
Hahahaha!
I dated an Israeli girl, long time ago. She introduced me to the idea that her govt isn't just in a bad neighbourhood, its also way f--ked up and values its actual citizens about as much as Russia values theirs. Would have kept the relationship longer but her visa was up and she had to go back. Was a good one.
Israeli girls are way less conceited than Jewish-Australian girls.
I think rosgvardia in Donbass are people from Doneysk and Lugansk who were fighting with the ukranian nazis since 2014 and were not encapsulated in the russian army after these territories voted to join Russia. I am not completely sure anout this though...
If I were pressed into duty, I'd prefer the Ukrainian army over the Russian one.