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Yes, that's interesting and there must be some good material to read up on this 🙏 European medieval Christianity also discouraged loan business, which is why banking activities before the Renaissance were mostly outsourced to the Jewish communities.

In terms of business, yes, also Saifedean mentioned the option of giving equity to the lender, that's possible.

What if there's no profit related to the object I need the money for, e.g. real estate for private use? We have to get used to the fact that we can only buy things once we've fully earned them? Or in an abundant world based on a Bitcoin standard, prices will fall to such an extent that 5 years of productive labor would afford a house?

wymike 1y ago

Re housing: there are other options to either saving up or getting a loan. In the UK they have building societies that started as just what the name suggests. Everyone payed in some money each month and when there was enough money it would be used to build a house for one of the participants. This continued until everyone had a house. I’m not suggesting this is the solution just using it to highlight that there are other ways.

To your point about prices, I think this is a reasonable assumption that I’ve heard from @michalesaylor and @jeffbooth, they will fall to the cost of their utility value because they will be less desirable as a store of value.

I’m sure a lot of millennials and gen Z would take having to save for 10 years to buy a house over their current situation.

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Discussion

Seodan 1y ago 💬 1

Great! I heard about such a building communities for housing from after WWII times in Eastern Germany as well. Definitely revivable. Just need a looower time preference.

I also agree with you that if within ~10 years of good work you're able to afford property, then the young generation wouldn't mind working hard first. I personally grew up with that mindset and it didn't occur to me to buy real estate without having earned enough beforehand. Only once I realized that in most Western countries housing prices are through the roof is that I hesitantly started considering credit.

wymike 1y ago

Finally finished listening to the interview today and found myself much more aligned with saylors view of the future than safedean’s.

A lot of the people still to come into Bitcoin will not hold the same views as the early adopters and will likely be happy to have someone else custody their Bitcoin for them, especially if the custodian pays them a yield on it.

Also, the scenario where everyone is just using Bitcoin and there is no more fiat traditional finance is more then likely so far off that we can’t predict what will change in the interim.

One think I know for sure is that if there is a demand for something in the market someone will fill that demand. If in the future there is a demand for credit when the world is in a Bitcoin standard someone will find a way to meet that demand.