//another
Thriller 🟠 drop
Lightning talk with Justin Shocknet
Car talks with Justin of Shocknet. They discuss how the Shocknet team has been at the forefront of leveraging Lightning Network since its early testing phase in 2018. They delve into Lightning Video and the integration of Nostr, exploring the potential of PoW and the significance of a web of trust for Nostr's wider adoption. The conversation also touches upon the broader implications of L2 solutions and the ongoing scaling debate within the Bitcoin community, highlighting Shocknet's no-regret approach to committing to Lightning.
🪂 topics discussed:
• shocknet
• free state
• lightning wallets
• nostr
• shock wallet
• lightning node
• lightning pub
• uncle jim
• self-custody
• lightning video
• nostr pow
• zaps
• wavlake
• pow socials
• zap rank
• web of trust
• nostr adoption
• l2
• scaling debate
• history repeats
• wait and see
• voltage
• zeus
• no regrets
• bitcoin startup
• turn key
//Thriller ep:
📀 zap via fountain: https://fountain.fm/show/6Na2tAjoNr9lZxpPAH25
📀 rss via transistor: https://share.transistor.fm/s/cc38822f
📀 subscribe to the zine: https://thrillerbitcoin.com/thriller-zine
THRILLER ZINE – 10 FEBRUARY 2024 – PUB VIEW →
https://www.thrillerbitcoin.com/lightning-talk-with-justin-shocknet/
⚡️Follow the conversation for the ep on Stacker News.
"It's custodial but you should trust the person running it. But it's totally not the same as fedimint" (paraphrase)
nostr:npub1xvtwx6tduaxnn9v3y7uasskl277achgu0tu2qncmc7hdsz6y2zyqce64sa please explain how your solution cannot be co'oped by bankers? I fully expect your arguments to be the same as pro-ecash arguments, BTW. You've developed tech with the same custodial trust model as fedimint or cashu, except it somehow can't be used by those with malicious intent?
lol this man is on an anti ecash crusade and I'm enjoying it (because he's not making any sense whatsoever).
He can debate me on an open stage instead of larping for engagement without anyone to call out his bullshit. Let's do it bro.
most of his arguments are pretty shallow and dissolve when investigated deeper. I wanted to give the pod a listen anyway to see, then the first half he describes a system using nostr to RPC a LN node so someone else can run the LN node for you. WHICH IS THE SAME TRUST ASSUMPTION WITH ECASH. You're trusting that someone else doesn't rug you, so 1. don't use it for large amounts or 2. only use it with someone you trust deeply. just like a cashu mint or fedimint. The rug risk or the risk of banks using his model is just the same, except 1. you don't get the privacy of ecash and 2. you get 0 offline capabilities. You might be able to get some fun things with signatures (like p2pkh in NUT11) since it uses nostr but seems very limited otherwise.
You've already run an hid before snowflake... any time 🍿
Bitcoin 2024, I assume you're there?
I put in for an open source ticket... tbd
Maybe one of your NGOs if they feel strongly about it can pay for my flight.
Not sure what NGOs you're referring to? I received an OpenSats grant, do you want OpenSats to pay for your flight?
Pick one, several to choose from underwriting this ECash scam.
Fwiw I applied on behalf of Pub/Wallet long ago, they declined without cause... seems they hate uncle jim. Imagine that.
Also happy to host you at https://shenandoahbitcoin.club
we meet third saturday of the month for brunch. brunch on me if you show up.
Keep it coming. Do you understand how blind signatures work? If you do, explain to me how ecash is bad.
You imported an existing library clown... and now pretend 3 people using a server together somehow constitutes payment privacy
I've already said it'd be fine as an internal access token given a large anonset, it's the lie of pretending federations or it's use as a payment spec are improvements on Bitcoin that is a scam.
👆🧐🍿🍿
There is no hiding on nostr. I am waiting for a coherent argument from Justin.
Is the main argument ecash vs lightning?
Justin believes ecash is bankers attacking bitcoin. He has tech that has similar trust models to ecash mints. He makes various assertions without laying out coherent arguments for them, which you can see in this note thread(s).
He also seemingly only has ad hominem attacks without being able to articulate in depth technical arguments against the ecash he dislikes. 🤷♂️
I like these arguments. I know very little about either side but learn a ton when Bitcoiners go at each other honestly.
This a good one. And the blinded signature stuff is just math. Don't have a good explainer off hand. Just look for chaumian ecash blinded signatures.
Obviously the custodial trust model isn't the distinguishing characteristic now is it? I've never had taken issue with that component. I also don't pretend that's some great innovation, like shitcoiners do.
Now, aside from the fact it's not *already* funded by several banker NGOs unlike mint projects,
It's not framed as "trust minimized" which is a lie that Federatooors push,
It does not introduce a new shitcoin payment interface by remaining purely bolt11,
It doesn't make false privacy claims unlike the mintooors,
It does primarily solve networking challenges- which Uncle Jim has and big banks don't.
> banker NGOS
Aren't you Wolf funded? Run by... career Goldman Sachs people. Hypocrite.
> "trust minimized"
i am not a marketer so carte little for copy material, so sure.
> new shitcoin
ecash is not new. pegging ecash to bitcoin is new. have fun scaling lightning, i hear it's a breeze and totally not hard to do.
> false privacy claims
Do you have any evidence of this? the code is open source, as well as the cryptography the code implements. Please enlighten me how blinded signatures are not privacy preserving.
> solves networking challenges
like paying people offline? how solve?
Let's take your arguments deeper to really understand them.
Wolf invested in us based on work re: LightningVideo, yes Pub powers it's back-end, and both have been built out of my pocket over YEARS prior... Apples and Oranges vs the propaganda wing NGOs
If mints settle on lightning their privacy is bound by that if lightning, which is nearly perfect as I'd. For custodial privacy it requires a large anonset, meaning a bank, not uncle Jim.
It solves offlineness by enabling proper home nodes with an account database, not retarded mobile nodes. Mints have to be online too.
So your funding is from bankers, ACK.
The mints interop over lightning or on-chain or not at all. describe nearly perfect, please. admittedly, LN is not my forte so am happy to be educated on it's privacy. iiuc, it's prvate for one side of the transaction, at the moment.
> For custodial privacy it requires a large anonset
Again, please show me where in the blinded signature scheme that privacy is broken. Stop making vague assertions and show me the math and/or code that breaks the privacy of ecash.
Anonsets are a factor when the underlying mechanism can be tied to transactions. you might be able to trace my UTXO or LN payment into an ecash mint, but please tell me how you can determine what is my ecash after that?
for argument sake, say 5 people have entered into an ecash mint, all via Lightning.
You receive an ecash note in a DM from a random npub, please explain to me how you know who it's from, or where the sats originated from.
> account databases on home nodes
Why do you need accounts? what happens if the node is compromised? data leakages never happen, right?
> retarded mobile nodes
i know nothing of the technicals of mobile LN nodes so cannot comment but that's outside the argument at hand, imho. mobile nodes can gtfo for all i care.
> Mints have to be online too.
yes, but not for users of the mint to transact. you can swap ecash offline and later check in with the mint to redeem.
This is nostr, we are not limted by character count, do better with your arguments.
Blinded signatures by 5 people circle jerking in a mint isn't privacy, if that's your privacy usecase lol.
I'm on mobile and the least bad clients are still fucking terrible, if you want to have this out call me... You can record it and not act like a 14yo being dumped by his gf over text
My IQ keeps dropping with every sentence I read from you.
CornyChat (Xitter spaces like) today at 1200 ET/1700 UTC. would be happy to record.
nostr:npub12rv5lskctqxxs2c8rf2zlzc7xx3qpvzs3w4etgemauy9thegr43sf485vg any chance you're available?
