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Good questions. Off the cuff, I'd say that one's reasons for learning about and holding bitcoin may vary. But the intentions behind the creation of Bitcoin obviously draw on moral sources, especially the devastating effects of unsound money on society and the need to separate money from state. (See Hülsmann's THE ETHICS OF MONEY PRODUCTION.) This in my view is the determinant for the morality of holding Bitcoin even as it is treated as a speculative get-rich scheme by some... which seems far less prevalent among bitcoiners than it does in the spinoff communities that are deeply scammy. By no means is it absent. In the end, I would hold Bitcoin even if it didn't appreciate massively in value. Its qualities as sound money and a savings vehicle for the masses-- an open, permissionless, trustless bearer asset, that cannot be corrupted by any central authority, seems like good enough of a deal to stake one's wealth on in the hopes that it can address the deep and hidden injustices of the current system.

MichaelJ 1y ago

I agree that intentions are likely to be the ultimate determiner of the morality of holding Bitcoin in each individual's case.

Your statement about the creation of Bitcoin as an alternative to unsound money seems to be where there is the most possibility for error. The end of creating escaping the fiat system cannot be used as a justification to engage in speculation around Bitcoin. That said, I agree with you that it seems most serious Bitcoiners are seeking a more just monetary system more so than personal gain.

The closest analogy to Bitcoin would seem to be gold. Gold as a money is arguably best when transactions are carried out in gold coin, but it would not seem to be immoral to hold gold as a store of value. It has some intrinsic value and is thus the opposite of speculative when used as such. Likewise with Bitcoin, though I doubt whether it has intrinsic value in the same way gold does.

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Omekau 1y ago

Linking a thread where I had a similar conversation with nostr:npub1nf9vm6uhs4j7yaysmjn9eqlf7et5t6hvrkdqgpd995vcc9yfjyas0pxa3x

https://primal.net/e/note1f73x842633u75l3sf7mee4r96jqp84nk9g8pmg9a69w2chf6k5kq0uxsel

I think I’ve reached a similar conclusion as Fr. Nick Blaha. Opting for bitcoin because of its nature as sound money for people of all nations and creeds, regardless of future price action in dollar terms, is the most moral option available. I think the key distinction to make is the principle of double effect which I mention in that thread above.

MichaelJ 1y ago

Thanks for linking that! It provides some helpful points.

I think my current position is that, at the very least, I need to know enough about Bitcoin to be able to receive and transact in it. If it is truly a currency, then doing things to earn Bitcoin will ultimately be more important than buying and holding stacks of it against some possible future.

Which takes us into the next point, that for Bitcoin to avoid becoming just another speculative asset, people need to start treating it like money. Nostr and Lightning are pretty cool because they are starting to create a market for people who want to actually treat Bitcoin like money. But people gotta buy fully into that project.

Omekau 1y ago

Totally agree with that last sentence in your first paragraph. The end should be the pushing out of all weaker currencies (USD as the last bastion) from the quotidian transactional economy. If the intent is instead to acquire bitcoin for the end of a larger amount of USD (or other currency), then that’s speculative and should be avoided given its inherent uncharitableness (wasn’t sure if that was a word lol).

Yes hopefully! And there needs to be a culture that promotes broader distribution of bitcoin, not to just drive up buyers for the sake of “number go up”, but for the good of our neighbor that they may benefit from sound money that can’t be debased.

I wonder if an argument can be made that Bitcoin is in line with the virtue of poverty. Poverty, not in the mistaken sense of being in a state of miserable want, but in not desiring the superfluous and in cheerfully accepting shortage or discomfort, as St. Josemaría Escrivá puts it. With bitcoin’s USD price fluctuation, it can certainly be a bit nerve wracking to depend on that for long term savings but that is the short term cost of relying on a money that can’t be weaponized for certain political agendas (especially those that are anti-Catholic) all while throwing you a bone of x% return on investment.

MichaelJ 1y ago

Don't over-spiritualize Bitcoin. As a money, it would be neither inherently prone to poverty of spirit nor inherently prone to avarice. It's just morally neutral like any other money.

The essence of spiritual poverty, as I have come to understand it, is detachment. So eschewing some amount of monetary gain for the sake of promoting a more just society is compatible with the spirit of poverty.

We have to view money (including Bitcoin) as a resource we must steward rather than as something we own and can dispose of at will.

Omekau 1y ago

Good point, it all depends on how it’s used. What I intended to convey was the notion you expressed of eschewing monetary gain for the promotion of a more just society. I think bitcoin is more conducive to that precisely because its monetary power cannot be siphoned away by the State which I think it’s fair to say is inherently unjust. But of course, there can and will be people who seek solely to profit off of the volatility by accumulating from weak hands and selling to greedy hands.

𝔽𝕒𝕥𝕙𝕖𝕣 ℕ𝕚𝕔𝕜 𝔹𝕝𝕒𝕙𝕒 1y ago

The possibility of signifcant increase in buying power for bitcoin is not simply a function of its speculative nature. Buying and holding bitcoin for principled reasons is actually quite difficult and represents significant risk--the factors at play are more than just personal gain and storing the value of one's labor, but also a more sound monetary asset and the separation of money and state. The possibility of significant gain represents an incentive to help motivate those who take these risks to take them both prudently and courageously, and to persevere in the face of extreme difficulty and distraction. That is no small thing. A dictum in this respect would be: Show me the incentives, and I'll show you the outcome. Bitcoiners are serving a noble good and the possibility of monetary gain is one factor among many important factors that helps to incentivize what would otherwise be unimaginably difficult for most people.

Stated by nostr:nprofile1qyv8wumn8ghj7cm9d3kxzu3wdehhxarj9emkjmn99uq3wamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwdehhxarj9e3xzmny9uq3zamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0qyghwumn8ghj7vf5xqhxvdm69e5k7tcpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ukzcnvv5hx7un89uq3kamnwvaz7tm5dpjkvmmjv4ehgtnwdaehgu339e3k7mf0qqsp4lsvwn3aw7zwh2f6tcl6249xa6cpj2x3yuu6azaysvncdqywxmgf9qw43 in more forceful terms:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCLt7oUl43I

I also think the idea of intrinsic value is a distraction in this discussion. Correct me if I'm wrong: in the sense you're using it here, "intrinsic value" means "good for something other than being used as money, and therefore [more] free from speculative abuse". But the claim is that bitcoin is a new form of money that creates digital scarcity through the binding of real world energy expenditure to an immutable distributed ledger in order to secure it from attack and recalibrate the accuracy of the price signal. Digital scarcity is such a profound innovation that it's hard to make a comparison to other monetary phenomena. "Intrinsic value" is something like a skeuomorph of the prior forms of money that were necessarily physical. A skeuomorph is "a derivative object that retains ornamental design cues from structures that were necessary in the original." But bitcoin is innovative precisely because it eliminates the need to bind scarcity to physicality, offering pure scarcity in the digital realm by the capture of energy through proof-of-work.

(You can weigh in any time, nostr:nprofile1qy28wumn8ghj7un9d3shjctzd3jjummjvuhszxmhwden5te0w35x2en0wfjhxapwdehhxarjxyhxxmmd9uq3zamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0qyfhwumn8ghj7ur4wfcxcetsv9njuetn9uq3samnwvaz7tmxd9k8getj9ehx7um5wgh8w6twv5hsz9mhwden5te0wfjkccte9ehx7um5wghxyctwvshsqgqr6w2khgwqxwfqylc7232g883ypnlxxa8ex50kmvghmpz3kzvxuvywsart )

Mark B 1y ago

Great conversation, I don't know I have much to add. Am I right that this thought around speculation is what keeps the New Polity guyd from Bitcoin?

I guess I struggle with speculation in general. If I buy Apple stock with the expectation of a profit, that wouldn't be immoral, right? And if I buy gold because it's a store of value, and it just so happens to appreciate because it's a really good SoV and people don't like financial chicanery(ie money printing), that's fine. By extension, if I buy the ability to transact globally with a permissionless software protocol network, that others come to realize is truly scarce and are willing to pay even more to participate in... Is there harm?

Was Our Lord talking about speculation when he told the parable "the kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then... sold all he had and bought that field?"

I know there's a line where it becomes immoral I just don't know where.