Disabling likes by default in every client might not be a terrible idea. Potential to reduce dopamine hits, reduce doom scrolling, promote discussion, increase signal with zaps.
Option to turn {on} your drugs.
Discussion
⚡️instead of 🤙
This ☝️
I stopped using the like completely. I see no point in it anymore. If you really appreciate you either repost to share the word or you zap ⚡️
I’m still tempted to hit the Shaka in Damus because it’s there :(
I rather send a 🤙 as note if i really want someone to see because some clients don’t even show it as shaka
🤔🍊💊
I think for sharing, you could also drop some zap! Each interaction could be zapped! I mean if you want to repost something, it means it is better than a like. So if you exchange like for zap, than repost shall be double-zap! 🤙
Idk if you make every interaction a zap it might be a onboard hurdle for ppl coming from other platforms
True!
Hmm, at the end you get zaps for creating. Creating a new thread, or adding a good comment. So those could be zap free. The like can stay there for placebo, and we can start to make new nostriches value more the zaps, and not likes.
Maybe it is matter of "socialisation".
On each platform, you learn the governing forces. Somehow in nostr, we shall aim for give to get. Value for value.
On ramp up, newbies could get some sats for start. As we have now. And then let them out in the jungle of zaps.
I think a good adoption force of nostr really can be instant value for value. So if you make a valuable post, you get instant value for it.
You cannot get it on other social media platforms.
Agreed.
But i think atm the „value“ of a big followership overweighs the value of instant zappification for most creators.
I have asked some from twitter to come to nostr. They sais they would or already are but i see them not activate here. I think they are so afraid of loosing their well maintained machinery of engagement that the incentive of zappification is not high enough atm.
Sad. Engagement has them hostage. Need an intervention!
Absolutely. But how? I can really relate. If you put effort in for 2,5 or 10 years, you won’t risk loosing everything for a „new hope“.
We need to be the leading example that creators can thrive more freely here.
Lol. The idea of putting in 10 years of effort into communicating sounds so ridiculous. I get it but can’t stop laugh/crying
Yeah pol just accepted the algorithm so quick. I remember early days of FB whrn you could reach all your followers. When they reduced this i stopped using it but most ppl accepted it
feels like this is a difficult but important question - I never understood the need to get hooked to social profiling and thats probably why it feels like peace of mind here at nostr without the algo. But there will be people who will want it - influencers, businesess - and so would it make more sense to isolate the "influencer tools" option early on for those who want it ? its like legalising drugs or anything out of moral policing to control the usage (that might be a bad analogy idk) It just feels like its only a matter of time before a client comes in, with ads and VCs and algos and pulls in a huge crowd. I don't know, its icky and gross but feels like a topic we cannot complete avoid. But if there are ways we can completely bypass algo and create a new culture and hype for content engagements, i'm all for it.
1. Give options
2. Designers have been making choices for us for centuries - it’s not moral policing, just shaping what we want our society to look like.
3. Kids are involved who don’t know the implications of their own interactions with social media - completely oblivious to what is happening with their minds.
We already have vc and as fueled clients - they are all the social media networks now. I think it’s easy to see they do a lot of harm both in addictive behaviors but also in psychological impact. I think it’s our responsibility to do better while giving the options to those who absolutely require the constant feedback.
Looking at snort's desktop view - doesn't the zap serve the exact same purpose as how the current content engagement farms "like" ? whats stopping anybody from doing anything /from getting obsessed with getting more zaps ? Is it because it has some monetary value it makes it ok ? just trying to understand how this would not yield to the same psychological impact
That would be so cool as a setting! I’d definitely have it enabled already.
Like. 😏
Totally agree 👍
Great idea, value4value!
Likes are free, sats are valuable.
Liked (& boosted) because I do whatever I want.
There are millions of people who can't afford zapping so their likes (& boosts) should still be appreciated.
Now, what if we can set the like button to zap (a tiny amount) as well, without the need to interact with the LN wallet?
Yes, the #nostr client would have to act as an custodian but I wouldn't mind to fill it up once a day/week with a small amount, like I do with WalletofSatoshi.
Aha. I think i need to turn it off. Thanks 🫂
Would be a cool feature on Damus! #[3]
All quantitative measures can be gone: #of follows, 🤙, and so on. If people care about their those, there are other places
It would be cool not to see who follows you! I’d still want to see who I’m following but that’s not a big deal metric
Oh yeah, I agree. Following lists help us to see whom to follow. But the number doesn’t have to be there. Shaka too, it can be there, but the number?
💯
👋😜👎
Maybe I'm stuck in an old mindset (probably 🙂), but I'd rather use a client that shows number of followers, likes, etc.
Still a useful & fun metric IMO.
But I see the good part in your idea. I think I could change my mind at some point 🤔
A client that let users -optionally- hide those numbers, how about that?
🤩🤑
Yes it’s a good option to have.
ser, why i can no send you zap?
:( I’ll test
Your post is moving eyeballs.
Added to the https://member.cash/hot feed
I disagree.
Likes are useful as general nods of agreement that help people connect with others they don't know well and don't see in person. Remove that and you slow down the process of building bridges with new people.
If I were to write small talk everywhere, then my feed would be filled with noise. Not all zaps are visible on notes.
Likes are not dopamine drugs for sovereigns, they are indicators of general, positive non-verbal interactions that informs us about who may hold similar viewpoints.
I’d never follow you for one of your likes. But I’d follow for the comment.
Fair enough. However, over time I can see recurring agreements from likes that helps me connect a name with certain positions. There is repetition that helps me making that connection.
I might not see all their comments in my flow and it saves me time to get a general impression in this format.
Many people don't write a lot of small talk and I'm generally in that category as well. If we remove likes then our feeds become full of short responses that have meaning for us but may be noise for others.
Good points. Someone abound just experiment with a client so we can see what actually happens.
Sure, experiments can be interesting.
But suppose we assume that some people out there are addicted to likes, then short comments of agreememt will just be the new form of likes.
That’s a possibility but not a certainty imo
But how do you know that people are addicted to likes in the first place? It sounds like a hypthetical from the start.
It’s quite real
That sounds like the exception though, not the norm.
Human need for acceptance is not an exception.
Sorry, I'm not with you on your train of thoughts. Addiction is a rare phenomenon.
Very good points in this thread! Made me realize I was using likes the same way #[4] does.
- giving them, when no need / no time for an articulated message
- seeing them, to identify users who usually share my POV and sometimes discover great follows
Likes keep discussions light and digestible, only people who actually have something to say usually post.
If the only way to weight in is to post a comment or zap, threads will get spammed AF and boring.
Regarding addiction to likes and need for acceptance, I think I'm with #[9] on this one. It's probably present among most humans, albeit at different levels.
IMHO more widespread but less toxic and less dangerous than gambling addiction. And Nostr being a fair playground with no algo manipulation (for now at least 😬), maybe it's not such a big deal.
Let them have 💜, let them give 💜 🤙
Giving users the option of what type of engagement is enabled and how it is displayed is a good idea. Zaps and descriptive analytics has the potential to be likes on steroids in terms of engagement incentives.
The beauty of nostr vs centralized platforms is the ability to use clients that allow you to turn those things off.