Classic Christian "gotcha"
I wish more atheists were better educated so they would know the obvious answer.
Occam still says no god at the big bang. Saying "God" doesn't explain anything it just adds thousands of new problems to solve and explain. You might as well say Aliens or Magic.
Only people who have been successfully brainwashed to see the word god as a cognitive stop sign think that saying God explains anything at all.
Not to mention the fact that there have been plenty of hypotheses put forth that attempt to make sense of that moment in history while staying consistent with the rest of observed reality.
A reasonable person can concede that the scientific process at least has a chance at chipping away some of the as-yet-unexplained parts. I prefer this competitive landscape of various candidate explanations.
But I was trying to disengage and let this conversation die... and now I've re-entered it. oops
It was such an easy chance to educate bystanders that I couldn't let it go.
Always fighting to raise that rational thinking waterline in society.
I guess I'd given up a while ago. I'm unconvinced that the bystander effect has any impact. People seem to just mostly be entrenched.
I can't recall any time the person changed their mind. I have gotten DMs and zaps from people who never joined in saying that they appreciated my explanation and they learned from it.
You never know who is reading and just lurking.
Where did all the particles and energy come from that produced this never observed, never recorded and never reproduced big bang?
Talk about blind faith in something never seen.
As Vinney says, people are entrenched. This includes those the science faith.
A man of faith who doesn't understand the definition of "faith".
my "science faith" gets overturned now and then (when it's working properly). does yours?
All religions tend to morph to fit the latest world views, including the science faith.
Right now most religions are being turned inside-out by the woke cultural identity Marxism being pushed onto the world by the UN, UNESCO and the WEF.
Klaus Scwabb talks about how they will attempt to do this in his Great Reset book. Top down, bottom up, inside out.
Top down is through governments and institutions like corporations.
Bottom up is through education and brainwashing of kids in schools and embedding the ideology in areas of study.
Inside out is through churches and religion.
Bingo. It requires no faith to say everything observed says it works like this but we are currently unsure why and still studying.
It does require faith to say a magic being who man discovered before he knew why things fall down still stands as the best explanation for every question on every subject I can't answer another way.
> It requires no faith to say everything observed says it works like this but we are currently unsure why and still studying
it's almost the exact opposite of faith. it's becoming comfortable with accepting the limits of one's own understanding.
and if it makes an onlooker happier to see things through ancient lenses: look no further than the Stoics to find the same lessons with a 2,000 year patina on them.
"I don't know" is a totally acceptable answer, and the one I choose in this case (and any other that you'd falsely attribute to "blind faith").
2 points.
1. I am comfortable with knowledge having limitations. It always will. This is where we focus our studies. It does not require slapping the first lazy answer made up by a goat herder thousands of years ago over those gaps to appease my anxiety about not knowing.
2. You have a lot of questions about science but 0 questions about an all knowing all powerful all good being existing for all eternity with less explaination than science has for its answers. Turn your skepticism inward for 5 seconds instead of attacking. Only having questions for your opponents doesn't make you look smart, it makes you look like an ideologue.
Please take a week of the time you spend smugly correcting atheists to study and understand the idea of the cognitive stop sign. Then pay attention to your own cognitive stop signs, they are unique to each of us and destroy personal growth and self knowledge.
Personally I'm currently a fan of wave theory since waves show up EVERYWHERE else. The eli5 is that universe is in the rising and above 0 quarter of the wave. This is why we observe expansion. The big bang would be the waves 0 cross into positive.
