Do you agree?
> Universal event persistence is a protocol bug, not a feature.
Reference:
Discussion
What's on the Internet stays on the Internet. Act accordingly. But also get used to humans being fallible.
Agree
there is no other way around
but clients should add delete buttons regardless
also when there are more people and the ecosystem is more spread apart it will become harder for relays to archive everything
No. I understand that perspective, but I believe it is short-sighted. If anything, event persistence could help to fortify a defensive position. I would be far more concerned with being able to prove what was happening, if I were receiving threats or being harassed than I would be about someone reading what I have said publicly and it somehow being used against me.
The gears of culture might turn on first order thinking, but without a central authority to go to for assistance in recovering deleted data in those situations, I think it's good that there is a relatively high chance that some things might always exist somewhere. No amount of technology will stop bad people from doing bad things, but it can provide decent people with some tools to defend themselves.
And honestly, everything I've deleted has disappeared well enough to call it gone (except lists lol). The motivation to go dig something up would be the very action I would want to be able to defend against.
You are assuming that events have to be publically available to prove something. Events are atomic and cryptographically signed. Anything you download can be brought out to make a point. Just need the json. That's why I encourage people to have a local relay and pull in their own events.
This is about everyone going to Primal.net and reading through everything you ever posted, for years. Not good. Especially, larger relays should make a point to have a retention policy.
I understand that, but no amount of encouragement is going to get everyone to run a personal relay, no matter how easy it is. At least not anytime soon. Half of the current die-hard users barely know what relays really do... And we often don't know now, what we might need later, especially when it comes to aggression that elevates slowly over time.
There seems to be plently of qualms with the way Primal chooses to operate, how they handle delete requests being among them. I don't see any of those things as a broader nostr problem, though. Right now, using Primal might be one of the easiest ways to gather notes in those adverse situations, should something like that arise.
I agree that all relays ought to have those types of policies, clearly stated and easily accessible to users, too, so that users can know where to search if they need something, where/how to publish in order to best maintain control of their exposure, when to expect their data to vanish, etc. I just view the stickiness as a cloaked benefit, is all. I know a lot of people won't see it that way, at least until they have a need.
No point in asking this question of the npubs who know about this and happily stay. Usually influencers or anons posting disembodied nothingness into the void. They might as well be bots, and some probably are. Obviously, they don't and won't care.
Ask the people who realized that this is how Nostr currently, usually works, (outside of private relays) who have made an escape or retreated back off the protocol except for the occasional GM and official announcements. That is the silent majority.
There is simply no use case for a normal person, where everything always being archived and public forever is not a bug.
Saying "that's just how it is, get over it", is to merely acknowledge that it is a flaw.
Also, some of the very few people on Nostr, who have ever been actively and aggressively censored, are nostr:npub1fjqqy4a93z5zsjwsfxqhc2764kvykfdyttvldkkkdera8dr78vhsmmleku and I. We're on all the best mute lists on here, as well. 😂
We understand the importance of the basic premise of the protocol preventing censorship.
That does not negate the necessity of improving the user experience for the majority of the remaining users (which also includes ourselves), who just want a friggin delete button, a bit of a private-r space, and some expiring notes.