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Bureaucracy is the imposition of impersonal rules on people, backed by the threat of violence. - David Graeber

There’s nothing warm about it.

“Anarchism is the idea that it is possible to have a society based on principles of freedom and solidarity, without the need for coercive institutions like the state.” - Graeber

Collectivism ≠ state led solutions and BS

you can have individual freedoms and solidarity in a libertarian socialist and anarchic system that get to the actual good statements like that.

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Discussion

tree 木 3d ago

"Libertarian socialism" isn't actually anarchism if it requires preventing voluntary arrangements. You can't claim to oppose coercive institutions while simultaneously needing enforcement mechanisms to stop people from freely contracting with each other - whether that's wage labor, property rental, or hierarchical organization.

Real anarchy means accepting whatever emerges from genuinely voluntary interaction, even if you personally find those arrangements non-ideal. Otherwise you're just proposing a different bureaucracy.

Trey Walsh 3d ago

I think most libertarian socialists would agree that volunteer cooperation (contracting, trade, want to rent a room, etc) is fine. It’s just about not reinforcing hierarchy the way other systems do. If there are functions needed to maintain that hierarchy (police, the state, etc), it wasn’t free to begin with. I think we agree here

tree 木 2d ago

If voluntary contracting and trade are fine, then we do agree—you're describing anarcho-capitalism. But most libertarian socialist and collectivist frameworks are obsessed with regulating economic arrangements and telling people what they can't do, even voluntarily... or at least that's my understanding.

If it's just about encouraging people in a certain direction without enforcement, then it's just an extension of ancap with different preferences. If not - what's the actual difference?