nobody said anything about excusing murderers. where did you get that?
Discussion
He is pretending that CSAM on Bitcoin is something that helps criminals, not mere trolling... It is absurd, no one needs Bitcoin to sell CSAM or even relay it for free just to hurt the victims... As if the internet doesn't exist freely outside blockchains. This is so stupid I find it hard to accept it is an honest misunderstanding... More likely just trying to capture Bitcoin with this pearl clutching insanity.
Data on bitcoin will stay forever unlike internet outside blockchain.
And? How is that attractive to pedos? Are they afraid of outliving their cloud provider or something? Also, any sufficiently popular torrent will last forever, arguably some have even more guaranteed longevity than Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not special it will last only as long as people care to share it's archival history. At some point everyone will say fuck it and start checkpointing their clients and hand picking UTXOs to delete...
The canvas remembers every pixel, even the ones laid with blood. But our canvas seeks creation, not destruction. #Nostr #pixelart #peace
He is a bit obsessed with CP and bitcoin.
oh boy. thanks for the tip
Weird Knots' people obsession with Porn is cringe af 😆.
i'm a Knots person, but i don't share that
Uffff relief..first normal knots user I meet.
All I met till now were freaks telling me:
YOU CORE PEOPLE WANT TO SUPPORT CP ON THE BITCOIN BLOCKCHAIN.
On X some of them straight report normal node runners preemptively to FBI.
Sorry. This is sick movement and that sickness started from top down..from Mechanic and Luke.
Now I understood where you "Four Horsemen" excuse came from.
Aaron's evil propaganda IMPLIES that using freedom tech you pay the price - "Freedom has its price."
No, you don't pay any price. Crimes are crimes and criminals must be punished.
No...wrong take. It came from a convo with Adam Back.
You need to cry harder at this point.
You need more brain. Fortunately people that read this have it.
Its interesting that you oppose oppresive regimes. Thats nice.
And yet, you with your actions actively try to destroy Bitcoin.
You are attacking Bitcoin Culture and Values and and you support the financial interests of shitcoiners who are harming Bitcoin.
Spam is harm to Bitcoin.
And you don't realize that Bitcoin being the FREEDOM MONEY is the greatest weapon against oppresive regimes.
...
I agree. I always need more brain. Never enough. So I pick some brain from OGs like Adam Back and from books Like Genesis Book that teach me how important the work of cypherpunks who were obsessed with censorship resistant protocols, really was. I came to conclusion that the fundamental value of bitcoin culture and ethos is censorship resistance at all costs..against all odds.
Not sure what your idea of Bitcoin Culture and Values are. From what I hear you, like most Knots people repeat very generic stuff with focus nowadays on CP content on Bitcoin.
It's just cringe to me honestly.
>Not sure what your idea of Bitcoin Culture and Values are.
So you didn't read this yesterday?
You miss one main Value without which Bitcoin and we would not be around here:
CENSORSHIP RESISTANT NEUTRAL NETWORK
Not controlled by any government.
Not edited by any committee.
Not shaped by what’s “acceptable.”
Just rules, math, and consensus.
That’s what made Bitcoin work. That’s what keeps it alive.
No, I don't miss that. I support that.
Although, again, Bitcoin is MONETARY Network. Bitcoin FREEDOM MONEY is NEUTRAL and Censorship Resistant.
Its Core who misses that and gives control to the shitcoiners who spam Bitcoin.
No one controls Bitcoin, that's a wrong take.
What does that look like to you?
Looks Like Knots to me:
nostr:nevent1qqsvzda4jyhvmlrhgmvz7hle5uqadchqjfwhe24j78d2xzqfkckq2nc55weap
And here I showed you how you are attacking Bitcoin Culture and Values ...
Bro you really sound like a frustrated 16 years old...how old are you?
Quite weak argument.
Are you compromised by corruption from shitcoiners?
There is A root cause for your denial. Ignorance at this point is out of the qustion.
I am really curious about your age. I am doxxed so it's not a secret. I'm 55. You?
Privacy is a human right which I support.
My age is irrelevant.
Its your choice whether you use nsec/npub with public or private identity.
Freedom of speech is for everyone.
Also to me face, person, age is irrelevant.
Actions are what is relevant and of course the thoughts/intentions leading to those actions.
(You can decide if a 16 year old can write this.)
What do you think about making public lists with doxxed identities of those who celebrated Charlie Kurk's death online, to punish them and possibly put their lives in danger?
Should freedom of speech allow people to celebrate publicly death of person they hated or is that hate speech like US government says and should be severely punished?
I try to stay out of politics. My fight is for Bitcoin. One can't fight all the fights. Although if we win the Culture, everyone will win and the basis of it is:
Freedom is for everyone.
Freedom of speech is for everyone.
Bitcoin Freedom Money is for everyone.
Freedom of choice is for everyone.
Now to answer your question.
1. No one forced the people to celebrate publicly the murder of Charlie Kurk. They themselves expressed their thoughts. This is Freedom of speech. (right or wrong is a moral qustion but what I here would say is that "All lives matter.")
2. The people who are creating lists are exposing publicly the people who celebrate the murder. This is also Freedom of speech. (they probably do it becuase they think its immoral to celebrate it)
3. I haven't heard of someone being harmed because of the lists but ANY physical harm from both sides would be a Crime.
4. The murder is a Crime and must be punished a such. I say it again. All lives matter.
5. The act of murder has its root cause. People need to find the root cause. It may be a Culture dacay. On both sides. We need to follow good principles. The Constitution is an example.
the simplest example of a good principle
"Don't do to others that, what you don't want others to do to you."
Praying for Charlie Kurk's wife and children.
So US government labeling what this people did as Hate Speech/ celebrating death of Charlie/ and promising to target, prosecute and punish this sort of language online is over reaching in your opinion and should not be accepted as norm?
No, there is no such thing like "hate speech".
Society needs Freedom of speech.
Bad speech, or rought speech or hate speech is just bad manners which I also have from time to time.
To be more precise:
There is no such Crime like "hate speech". Making it a Crime is acting against Freedom of speech which is very wrong.
So you oppose labeling speech as “hate,” because you understand how easily that leads to censorship by those in power.
But then you support labeling Bitcoin transactions as “spam,” even when they follow consensus and pay fees, simply because of their content?
It’s the same core issue:
Who gets to decide what’s acceptable in open systems?
In society, it’s supposed to be collective human judgment — not state-enforced definitions.
In Bitcoin, it’s the fee market — not a handful of devs or filtered relay policies.
Open systems self-regulate.
If we start pre-filtering based on fear, optics, or personal values, we’re not protecting freedom — we’re rebuilding the very control structures we claim to resist.
But you see that hate speech leads to horrific results.
I am not saying that people should endorse hate speech. Hate speech is not part of any Culture.
Good speech needs to be endorsed.
Same with spam. Spam will lead to terrible results. We can't 100% ban it or stop it but lets not endorse it and lets not make it an easy entry.
You don’t see the essence of it?
Who decides what’s “freedom” and what’s “hate”?
Governments and media.
They don’t want society to self-regulate they want control.
They reward, they punish, they define the boundaries of speech.
Now ask yourself:
Who gets to decide what is and isn’t spam on Bitcoin?
Knots want that role.
They want to be the gatekeepers.
But they forget something fundamental:
Bitcoin already has a trustless, self-regulating system: fees and consensus.
That is the law.
That is the beauty.
So when you import the logic of the broken world :the logic of filtering, judging, controlling into the most neutral protocol ever invented…
You don’t protect Bitcoin.
You turn it into something else.
Something dangerously close to the very thing it was built to escape.
*Charlie Kirk (sorry for that)
I think he's commenting on Aaron's apparent moral relativism. Bitcoin being censorship resistant is not a excuse to turn a blind eye to criminal activity. Bitcoin is censorship resistant *for monetary transactions* i.e. ledger entries for value transfer via satoshi balance updates. Some core devs have decided this should also apply to any arbitrary data in op_return, including possibly illegal images and videos.
Aaron is using the principal that monetary transactions should not be censorable to excuse people "doing very bad things", effectively saying "sorry, nothing we can do about it." Meanwhile core is removing an option node runners can use to curate their own mempools. This is *not* censorship any more than filtering email spam, or muting people on social media, or any other curation at an individual user level.
As much as core would like "the mempool" to be a uniform global feed of unmined transactions, there are only individual mempools managed by individual node operators. As such curation is fair game, and censorship resistance is preserved because filtering op_return doesn't filter monetary transactions. Even if they do (as has been pointed out many many times) filters can be routed around.
define 'criminal' without relying the same system that attempts to define legal tender..
Why? Are you suggesting laws don't apply to Bitcoin node operators? Unfortunately I live in a jurisdiction where using "code is law" as a defense in court probably won't work. By all means, legal tender and other unjust laws should be ignored or circumvened using bitcoin, but all of them? Even the abhorrent stuff we're talking about? That's insane. Bitcoin censorship resistance isn't some magic wand that eliminates morality. What is moral? Each individual node operator must decide that for themselves.
you're already picking and choosing which laws to respect ("unjust laws"). it's fine if you want to take a position about which information sharing activities you support or oppose, but don't try to lean on the law to do so. it's inconsistent.
"code is law" won't work as a defense for you violating the "unjust legal tender laws" either.
you can just say "i don't like people doing X, i believe they should stop". you said yourself that each individual decides what is moral. it sort of just ends there.. adding 'law' into it doesn't move the needle, just confuses the argument.
I agree that what I as an individual decide is moral matters more (to me at least) than what is law. Legality is only a practical consideration in the sense that staying out of legal trouble and/or prison is generally something I strive for. There are many laws I agree with and the fact that they were enacted by the same government that also enacted legal tender laws doesn't change that. Because of this overlap it's easy to conflate what is moral vs legal, and you're right, I should have focused only on moral choices, not criminal, legal, etc. That being said, It doesn't change anything I said previously about op_return filters. Forgetting about legal ramifications and focusing only on moral/ethical concerns, do you have any issues with my previous two comments?
I run Knots because I believe in controlling my mempool based on my own moral judgements and who/what i do/don't want to interact with. Yea, no disagreement about any of that.
Nice having a civil discussion with you 🫡