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Replying to Wonteet Zebugs

So for small miners, it's not really a problem and for huge miners, they can just mine themselves (without even a pool). So I guess the problem is mostly for mid-range miners. Even then, doesn't DATUM solve this? :

"Perhaps most importantly, with DATUM, coinbase payouts go directly to miners, instantaneously and without custodial oversight. This ensures that every block found is rewarded in a decentralized, non-custodial manner—something no other pool or protocol offers." https://ocean.xyz/docs/datum

#bitcoin #btc #mining #DATUM #CTV

vnprc 7mo ago

You have to be in the top 15 or so miners on OCEAN to get a coinbase payout. DATUM doesn't solve this problem, it solves a different problem.

With CTV payouts we can drop the lower limit of non-custodial payouts effectively to the dust limit. It's a huge help to small miners who don't want to have to trust any pool.

Even for large miners who can afford to solo mine, many choose not to do so. With CTV they can also access non-custodial mining rewards and de-risk their operation.

I think it literally helps everyone in mining except Bitmain. Fuck Bitmain. This is how we win.

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vnprc 7mo ago

Watch this talk at 3:03:00 to see how many hoops they jump through to cram the max payouts into the coinbase. CTV totally eliminates this problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKQvDfmQkt8&t=8910s

vnprc 7mo ago

nostr:nprofile1qyx8wumn8ghj7cnjvghxjmcpz4mhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejqqgzn9kpsmllqnsf7wh5tz3wgy4cclsftqqplv8tpayrhwgw8llunevgnmdf3 ur still wiping the timestamp in autoplay youtube videos. Pls look into this. 🙏

vnprc 7mo ago

It's not great for Foundry either. Sorry not sorry. Use a better model.

Wonteet Zebugs 7mo ago

My understanding is that CTV enables vaults. In terms of adversarial thinking, how do you feel about the risks of CTV making it easier for governments to mandate vaults, including time delays and recovery mechanisms? And the risks of having siloed bitcoins ?

Those are my main concerns with CTV, on top of the unknown unknowns of a consensus change. I'm pretty much 110% in, so I care! ;-)

vnprc 7mo ago

CTV is a prerequisite to vaults but does not alone enable ergonomic vaults.

Vaults are not a threat to bitcoiners. Governments cannot mandate the spending conditions of your self-custodial bitcoin. This is because your wallet software specifies the locking conditions for a UTXO when it creates the receive address. If you use self-sovereign wallet software (you should) then you are not vulnerable to malicious spending conditions injected into your wallet addresses.

If your argument is that governments can force you to use a particular wallet with malicious spending conditions, this is already possible with multisig. It doesn't happen in practice because governments don't need to do that much work. It is FAR easier to push people into custodial systems. Coinbase, Microstrategy, and bitcoin ETFs are the actual attack on bitcoin self-custody, not CTV.

CTV is an extremely useful tool to have in the toolbox. It is safe and brings amazing capabilities to bitcoin script. Quite frankly, we should have activated it on mainnet years ago. The best time to plant a tree is 100 years ago but the second best time is right now.

Let's activate this thing already.

Wonteet Zebugs 7mo ago

This is what I replied to nerd2ninja and I think it applies to your answer as well :

Those are more extreme, thus harder to mandate. And they don't affect the rest of the bitcoin UTXOs.

- If someone in some dictatorship is forced to use a custodian there, it doesn't affect others, and that guy can leave his country.

- Mandating a multi-sig would force the government to have lots of policies in place to be able to sign (or not) for every spend. A policy nightmare.

Whereas if we have vaults that can be mandated, you risk having siloed UTXOs on the network. It's also much easier to just have some kind of vault where the government gives itself a 72 hours to clawback a spend if they realize you're sending it to a Unacceptable Fringe Opinion Holder.

I see vaults as much more dangerous than what the governments can actually enforce right now with the protocol as it is.

vnprc 7mo ago

Love the questions! Keep pushing. Keep learning. 🔥