This comes across as cope.

A dollar bill can be scribbled on to a point it is no longer usable as money and a monument can be defaced so badly it is no longer recognisable.

We've seen what happens when you reduce efforts against people who attack our monuments and open the door to them. They pull them down and throw them in rivers, or melt them down in furnaces, destroyed forever.

When some radicals attack your monuments you don't throw your hands up and say maybe it just wasn't as valuable as we thought, you increase patrols and throw out harsh penalties to make it harder for them.

Core are doing the former and trying to negotiate with terrorists instead of the latter and telling them to fuck off and doing what they can to prevent harm.

It the same suicidal altruism and cowardice that has destroyed the West playing out here. Grow a backbone and defend the good thing we have before it's ruined.

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One does not need cope if one does not perceive a problem. I'm bullish on bitcoin as it is.

I think it's as valuable as we thought. However, when I see arguments that JPEGs are a problem, I can only assume they fear it's not as valuable as they thought. Otherwise I don't think they'd view it as a problem.

I would oppose consensus changes to make it easier to put more non-monetary stuff into the timechain. But that's not what Core has proposed; they just don't see a purpose to make relaying more restrictive than what can be mined.

Attempting to filter what people are willing to pay for and what fits within current consensus, is a pretty Sisyphean activity in my view.

Yeah lets prioritize miners over nodes, that will lead to great outcomes

Hey Lyn we all love and respect you. Yes Consensus is the backbone .

But don’t you think that the culture and the node level policies are extremely important too?

Culture is important because it can affect consensus.

Node level policies are mostly non-impactful for things that people are willing to pay for. I think they give people a false sense of power, like they're having an impact that they're not really having.

Isn’t that when nodes with filters becoming dominant, at some point miners risk getting punished when they mine spams ? because they get orphaned more likely whenever two blocks are mined at the same time like once in one or two weeks

There are plenty of people much more knowledge and articulate than I am who have done an excellent job explaining why ignoring spam, and in this case enabling it, is a massive problem. I think it's imperitive that someone in your position takes the time to hear the opposing case (if you haven't already) considering 10% of node runners have already switched to Knots in the wake of this. nostr:nprofile1qqsz39wrxrpr7wp3jmqwlxydumdg8wpmgkp76huurmds54vuangljqqpzemhxue69uhkummnw3ezu6rfve5hx6pwdaexwqg5waehxw309ahx7um5wgejuctrw3hzu6t08ln29e and nostr:nprofile1qqs8fl79rnpsz5x00xmvkvtd8g2u7ve2k2dr3lkfadyy4v24r4k3s4sppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qy08wumn8ghj7mn0wd68yttsw43zuam9d3kx7unyv4ezumn9wshscy566r in particular are worth taking the time to listen to.

Even if these spam attacks only come in waves and then disappear they are still massively harmful. I don't need to tell you fiat money is infinite and this means that funding these scams will go on as long as the money printer exists. If a new wave of jpeg tokens push up fee prices then vendors in poor countries have to compete with that rubbish to manage lightning channels and any other number of issues. That doesn't mean we don't think it's valuable, it means we think it's too valuable to be abused like this.

What can be mined is currently decided by less than 10 entities which in itself is a catastrophe waiting to happen. Spam can only be mined as easily as it is because pools have so much control they can make guarantees to include it in blocks they know they will find and control the template for. Mining needs to be much more decentralised and in that scenario 99% of what can be mined will be the default mempool policy of Core, which should be aggressively filtering spam not bending the knee to it.

Filtering has always been a part of bitcoin and is clearly effective as 99% of what is in blocks falls into the default mempool policy of Core. Spam is a continuous arms race but it is one where every time they find a new attack we can easily create a new filter and crush that particular scam and they have to explain to their investors why they need to build monkey jpeg viewer v15. It is a battle that is always worth fighting.

Also I apologise if I came across as disrespectful in my first response. I have massive respect for your work but I just think you are wrong on this and we cannot afford for someone as influential as you are to be complacent about what is happening here.

That is the way 🤜

Grow a backbone everyone

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Filters don’t prevent the harm, at all.

They make the problem WORSE, by discouraging them from putting the spam in the least harmful place- OP_RETURN.