Replying to paxchristi

There's a paradox here no? I hold bitcoin because I know that it will be more valuable in the future, it gives me the freedom of having a lower time preference - therefore I'm less likely to spend it now, or even in the near future. Additionally, where's this circular economy? Outside of Nostr, I don't see any one accepting it where I live (I'm outside the US).

And even on items that I would like to spend my sats on rn, require some form of transferring back to fiat ultimately i.e. is bitrefill et al. a circular economy in your view? There is at least changing of hands of sats, and some sats go to them for keeps - so to some degree it's circular i guess.

also, instead of spending my sats and triggering a tax event, i'm going to take out a loan against it to get whatever item i want - I'm incentivised to do so because of the tax structure (not all ofyour stack can be 'dark' unless you want to get it stuck there i.e. you'll not be able to make a large purchase in the future with it witout drawing the eyes of tax/gov.

I'm all for spending bitcoin ultimately but for me I'm dumping my fiat into it rightnow and keeping it there for the most part, i've spent sats on items that i could but that's been very little tbh , hardware wallets, vpns, bitrefill (all lightning btw)
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Zaikaboy 3mo ago 💬 2

I'll admit I only scan read your wall of text but...

I agree that it is difficult to live on a Bitcoin standard without using fiat rails like bitrefill but I didn't say that. I said circular economy where you can. I am in the UK. So, if you are lucky enough to have a shop that accepts Bitcoin and sells something you need to buy, go there. Once you have spent those sats, replace them with the £/$/€ you would have spent. No paradox. If there is no shop, which is often the case, look for like minded vendors. BTC maps can help here. nostr:nprofile1qqswc7d4dz775c72vzgltwztp33ecy9qjx0pwhaqnfx7x920s2gx7fgppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qg6waehxw309aek2mnyd96zumn0wdnxcctjv5hxxmmd9ululvvj runs an online market place. nostr:nprofile1qqsdua0tr4axvfuq02xl7ranxl8u7xy706d032mz98mg3anywyxrq9qppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qythwumn8ghj7ct5d3shxtnwdaehgu3wd3skuep0qy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7zshfgy sends preserves and honey and stuff. nostr:nprofile1qqsvgj4kam4n5rjatjxc46p2ltgw89aal0yjqrta3lp7u99xn60hgrqpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtcpzamhxue69uhky6t5vdhkjmn9wgh8xmmrd9skctcprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuen0w4h8gctfdchxvmf0c4zgsh has a network of hairdressers.

A little hard for you?

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paxchristi 3mo ago

Ok so you 'scan read' so you mustn't have seen the part where I said:

'Outside of Nostr ... ' So thanks for letting me know about plebian.market, which I already know about ...

And you didn't actually address the question I had (re: paradox) ... The paradox is, that Bitcoin incentives you to hold rather than spend, not that you'll never spend it, but you are more than likely to hold it rather than spend it. Saving and spending, IS the paradox, because when I hold Bitcoin, I feel like saving more than spending, that's just a fact (for me at least). In fact, holding Bitcoin IS using it ... the paramount invention is the ability to invisibly store your wealth in your mind across time, without it being corrupted, when the time comes, you 'spend' it, you release it's power to someone else.

I agree with you, and want to see a future of bitcoin in use, but the point I was making (perhaps paradox was the wrong word) is that Bitcoin makes you feel like you can save for the first time, and deploy your time and energy sometime in the future ... that's all, it gives you less of a feeling of wanting to spend it, now ... I know you should.

"So, if you are lucky enough to have a shop that accepts Bitcoin and sells something you need to buy, go there." I would, there isn't

"Chiefmonkey runs an online market place." Yes I know, as I've said.

Spend and replace, replace with what? If you're holding Bitcoin, there's nothing to replace it with. Unless you have a fiat job, which means you're not living the full circle no?

Spend and replace was apparently your answer to my question, which wasn't to answer it at all ... you certainly did scan read - what is the point in doing that?

Don't respond if you're not bothered to read someones post, you're only talking to yourself.

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Zaikaboy 3mo ago

I just read the lot. There is no paradox but you seem to have admitted that. Bitcoin doesn't incentivise anything, it is just a tool. Replace with the fiat you would have spent.

To summarise why you aren't grasping...save and hold what you don't need to live on. I would go kyc3 and not exchanges like conbase but it's a choice. I use fiat to buy mine, don't you?

Spend sats whenever possible but only on the things you need. You would be buying these things anyway with fiat as you don't have a Bitcoin shop. Use that fiat to buy back the Bitcoin you spent. Bitcoin economics means that over time this will help you save more.

Stop looking at the price. This pushes you into that mindset that Bitcoin is incentvising you to never spend it. You know it is a valuable saving tool. Good enough? The white paper says it is a P2P digital cash. Inferring you should spend it but it is up to you.

Ask yourself this question, why do you hodl forever and never spend? What is it achieving? Are you a collector or are you waiting to spend it? If you are waiting to spend then you are agreeing with me and it is just a time preference but if you never spend it you have achieved nothing.

The question is what will help Bitcoin achieve it's potential? It isn't hodling. It is use. Go to Kenya and Zimbabwe and see. They use it. I use it to bypass draconian sanctions that hurt people, not countries. Money is not a weapon. Bitcoin is freedom as you said but not if you just collect it and don't use it