Nostr Web Client

Why Nostr is struggling…

There is too much of an overlap with X, not only in the feature sets among the primary applications, but more importantly, in the kind of audience that Nostr is catering to.

Sure..censorship resistance at the protocol level is a differentiator, but the to the average person, you may as well be talking gibberish. They don’t know wtf a protocol is in the first place - let alone why it matters for censorship resistance to happen at that level, or more importantly, WHY they should trust Nostr to deliver on that promise. “Bcoz nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m said so” is not an argument.

————

Bluesky is a case in point here.

It’s got a VERY similar feature set to X, claims to be open source / censorship resistant (similar narrative to Nostr), and is growing MUCH faster than Nostr, bc it has captured a key audience, ie; people with TDS and EDS (Elon Derangement Syndrome).

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bluesky-signups-surge-uk-amid-musks-row-with-government-over-riots-2024-08-13/?

I’ve been on there a few times, and the content quality is enough to make you want to throw up….but at the very least, it’s working for that kind of content, and for the people who want it.

I don’t have a direct answer here..but I think it’s something to do with the over-emphasis on technicals.

nostr:npub1az9xj85cmxv8e9j9y80lvqp97crsqdu2fpu3srwthd99qfu9qsgstam8y8 mentioned increasing the emphasis on design the other day. I agree this is a move in the right direction. We’re taking a very design-focused approach with nostr:npub15xd2mmjnh3caykh77djsv73e0zkrp42jp5mwerx8f4m6su40wdvss7t3l3 (we’ll have ALOT more to show in the next 6wks).

That being said, it’s not enough.

IMO, Nostr is technically mature enough for us to go out there and talk about it to more people, and build a narrative BEYOND the 500 of us that are talking to each other on here.

People like nostr:npub1l2vyh47mk2p0qlsku7hg0vn29faehy9hy34ygaclpn66ukqp3afqutajft or nostr:npub1dergggklka99wwrs92yz8wdjs952h2ux2ha2ed598ngwu9w7a6fsh9xzpc can correct me if I am wrong here. Maybe there’s alot more to do technically.

But if I am right, I’d like to see more initiatives that are marketing oriented being supported by nostr:npub17xvf49kht23cddxgw92rvfktkd3vqvjgkgsdexh9847wl0927tqsrhc9as and nostr:npub10pensatlcfwktnvjjw2dtem38n6rvw8g6fv73h84cuacxn4c28eqyfn34f and other coalitions. Maybe we even need a council of Nostr businesses, who together pool some funds to help drive some marketing initiatives?

Whatever the case, we need to expand upon the Nostr narrative, make it more compelling and speak to more people about it.

At the very least, we have to conquer then Bitcoiners. If we can’t get the segment who are into freedom money onto the freedom of speech network, we’re DOA. That’s a first step.

I know nostr:npub1hz5alqscpp8yjrvgsdp2n4ygkl8slvstrgvmjca7e45w6644ew7sewtysa is working on a very cool initiative in relation to this. The Nostr Booth is IMO a great way to make Nostr more “real” for bitcoiners by having a physical presence at all the conferences.

I know nostr:npub1utx00neqgqln72j22kej3ux7803c2k986henvvha4thuwfkper4s7r50e8 + nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6 are doing some Podcast outreach. That’s super important too. nostr:npub16vrkgd28wq6n0h77lqgu8h4fdu0eapxgyj0zqq6ngfvjf2vs3nuq5mp2va and crew are putting on Nostriga. Amazing. nostr:npub16c0nh3dnadzqpm76uctf5hqhe2lny344zsmpm6feee9p5rdxaa9q586nvr / nostr:npub12vkcxr0luzwp8e673v29eqjhrr7p9vqq8asav85swaepclllj09sylpugg are doing great things with nostr:npub1spdnfacgsd7lk0nlqkq443tkq4jx9z6c6ksvaquuewmw7d3qltpslcq6j7, etc on the content side. I’ve got some things up my sleeve personally which I will begin to do once nostr:npub15xd2mmjnh3caykh77djsv73e0zkrp42jp5mwerx8f4m6su40wdvss7t3l3 is in a position to represent a NEW kind of Nostr-product..

But we need MOAR..

And…we also need to find another angle that is NOT about censorship resistance. That’s clearly not working against X.

I don’t know the EXACT narrative or spin, but it has to be more “running towards” than “running from”.

More white pill, less black pill.

Anyway.

I will probably turn this into an article. I’ve been thinking more and more about “writing in public” as we build Satlantis, and sharing more about how we’re thinking about growing a “network product” on top of a “network protocol”.

If you think this was valuable, please repoast so more people can see and get involved in the discussion.

alp 1y ago

Nostr doesn't compete so much with Twitter, FB or other social networks, but more with single-sign-on providers such as Google or Microsoft. Using multiple apps with one verified signin. And have a good payment option at the same time. Only without KYC and annoying middlemen. That's the slogan. Twitter is also trying to go in the direction of an “everything app” because it can't grow with only posting notes; Nostr is competing with this. And it has the potential to replace all the big tech with it.

The social media application stands out at the moment, of course, but it's not for everyone. The ecosystem and the other apps need to be pushed more. There are people who have nothing to do with social media but sell things on eBay all day long. Shopstr is a promising candidate. Or # asknostr for Quora-like platforms. And there are more use cases where identity and payment are central.

You know, I got my first high with a Zap, but my second, no less, high with a small freelance gig via Shopstr. I've never done a job so stress-free, fast and straightforward. More of this please!

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

Alekandar Svetski 1y ago

I get all that.

But “competing against everyone” is a losing strategy.

Who / what are we competing against first? And this needs to be a relatively precise target.

And perhaps we need to change the paradigm a bit. Maybe it’s not Nostr that’s competing, but the businesses themselves?

But if that’s the case, it maybe means we should be talking less about Nostr and more about the respective products?

It’s not so clear cut. Hence why I said it’s “struggling” with comms. We don’t have a tech problem. We have a go to market problem.

alp 1y ago

"But “competing against everyone” is a losing strategy."

Who says that? New times require new dimensions in competition. There are a lot of devs here, we're all here. It's just a matter of structuring and incentives.

And I think we _have_ a tech problem. No product is fully developed and everyone knows things are buggy. Even with good marketing, we would have a lot of disappointments after onboarding. For example, how do you explain to the masses in a non-technical way that you can't change/delete things? The lack of such a basic function alone will cause a rethink in online behavior and will also cause some regrets.

Alekandar Svetski 1y ago

Competing against everyone is the same as the million failed startups claiming “everyone is their user”.

Peak midwit approach

alp 1y ago

I wasn't talking on a startup/company level here. But thanks for the quick judgment.

Alekandar Svetski 1y ago

Same energy.

Easy judgement to make.

“Oh we have devs”

Who cares. That doesn’t magically lead to success. Never has, never will.

xtogro 1y ago

i’d flip the question—it’s not about who we compete with, but who we’re delivering value to. once that’s clear, knowing the competition becomes relevant.

there’s a simple 4P framework for early startups struggling to find product-market fit: persona, problem, promise, product.

the product must deliver the promise that solves the problem for your persona.

if anyone wants to dive deeper into nostr marketing, i’m happy to help—got a good bit of marketing/startup/tech experience 🤙

Alekandar Svetski 1y ago

Best response so far.

I got sucked into the competition frame, but what you said is really the correct frame.

That being said, same principle applies. Our market isn’t just “everyone”. That’s a retarded take, which too many nostr people have

Guga Figueiredo 1y ago

I'd argue that it stems from the mind viruses we got from fiat thinking, that creates this expectation that something needs to be adopted by critical mass user base in a very short timeframe.

nostr grows with builders, building their idea. we don't know which use case is going to turn everyone. it might be cat memes, it might be freedom money. time will tell

xtogro 1y ago

trial and error - sure, but to make it effective there must be some thesis we test

Guga Figueiredo 1y ago

my point here is more that not everyone is going to be turned by the same use case at the same time. so, on top of what you said, we should adjust our expectations accordingly

xtogro 1y ago

💯 true, nostr isn’t a startup locked between investors' expectations, and that’s a big comfort. the challenge is to be patient enough

xtogro 1y ago

i’ll start with my personal 4p that led me here:

persona:

i’m a startup founder (in the eu) with 10+ years in proptech. i had a bitcoin story years ago, similar to what nostr:npub18ams6ewn5aj2n3wt2qawzglx9mr4nzksxhvrdc4gzrecw7n5tvjqctp424 described once (“old discs turned into a multi-million dollar mirror”). i’ve always been into privacy and osint.

problem:

i never had instagram or facebook - it’s just not me. i like good conversations and interesting people. i tried twitter, but hated the ads (problem 1) and even more, (p2) the algorithms serving up the same quasi-influencer content (“ten ways to this…” and “what i’ve learned from…”).

this led to a third problem - every social media platform today is a selling tool. if not through ads, then through influencing. ads are annoying, but influencing feels fake, and i don’t want that in front of my face.

product:

that’s how i ended up on nostr, probably through some article on nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m involvement. i read the paper, explored tons of websites (com, org, band, watch, you name it), and found @primal available on iOS. here i am.

nostr promise:

i see no ads and no influencers.

value-for-value and full control are the promises that hooked me.

if ads show up in my feed, i can switch clients. if i encounter annoying influencers, i can mute them.

last but not least—

i’m still short here, but i already like you guys. i enjoy reading your notes, discussions, memes. you’re a bunch of smart people, and that’s a promise hard to deliver on the web 💜

pv 🤙

Alekandar Svetski 1y ago

Appreciate you laying it out.

But I don’t think what you laid out is a viable pathway to something large or significant.

If nostr is going to be some minor little network where a few people congregate to avoid ads and just chat to each other - sure. I see value in that.

But that won’t change the web or make any meaningful impact in the world.

The future is content creation, and that means more and more content creators and a larger and larger creator economy. (Yep…more influencers).

Sure - 80% of them are cringe, but 20% are excellent educators and there is loads to learn. (Maybe it’s 90/10, or 99/1 ).

The web is going to become the future of education. And that means content creators, selling stuff, and that also means ads.

Will Nostr play that game ?

Or will it remain small and fringe ?

xtogro 1y ago

thanks, i get what you mean about significance and changing the web.

i’m in that too. not just here - my company is pushing to transform the commercial real estate industry towards full information transparency. it’s a hard task, but that’s the fun part in the end.

ambitions should be high, but timing (is the market ready for my solution?) and strategy (start small, dominate, then expand) matter too. the result of these two factors is pragmatic tactics that let you keep moving forward, day by day, step by step.

about ads:

> selling stuff, and that also means ads

if it comes to that, i’ll just start my own client 🙃 and that freedom is exactly what i love about nostr!

but… i think we’re underestimating the potential impact of value-for-value. nostr:npub1xtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsevkk5s created something incredible with zaps; you won’t find that anywhere else.

still looking with a fresh outsider's eye, i think vfv is a big opportunity that could lay the foundation for a new, humble, and healthy creator’s economy. in my mind, it’s an ads-free model (of course!) where clients can earn fees (like patreon, substack) and, instead of disrupting MY feed with THEIR paid content, they invest in new mechanisms to discover worthy things. and as i see these ideas are already popping up in discussions.

Laeserin 1y ago

Is your company going to integrate Nostr on the backend?

Laeserin 1y ago

Get that real estate data decentralized and you'd get more independent data sources and could do better real-time analysis and AI embeddings.

xtogro 1y ago

the problem with commercial real estate data is that it's fragmented (many players, each aggregating the same/similar information for their own purposes). as a result, there's at least a double cost - one to collect the data, and one to verify it, multiplied by the number of players. this leads to many implications, including information gray areas and institutional players exploiting insider insights.

today, our platform solves the problem of data collection (we act as an integrator), but the missing puzzle is verification.

a few years ago, I was working on the idea of "property digital passports" - we built a theoretical model, the idea that each property could have its nft-like token with its history records chained in it (so there shouldn't be a need to double verify information that has been confirmed in the past).

didn't develop it further because we needed to put more effort into the core business, but... when I came across nostr, I was very excited because the concept is very close to what we were looking for.

to answer your question if we will use nostr, i still need to learn more and understand it better, but I'm very optimistic.

Alekandar Svetski 1y ago

Pablo has a really good angle on this with how he intends to build nostr:npub1w0rthyjyp2f5gful0gm2500pwyxfrx93a85289xdz0sd6hyef33sh2cu4x

I think that approach is infinitely more compelling than V4V.

I personally don’t think V4V scales. That’s why busking is not really a viable commercial strategy for 99% of the market.

Either way - this community needs more minds like yours around.

PS: You should also connect with nostr:npub1hz5alqscpp8yjrvgsdp2n4ygkl8slvstrgvmjca7e45w6644ew7sewtysa and give her some feedback on her new initiative.

xtogro 1y ago

thank you, appreciate you sharing all these insights. i’ve still got a lot to learn - diving into nostr:npub1w0rthyjyp2f5gful0gm2500pwyxfrx93a85289xdz0sd6hyef33sh2cu4x model next

xtogro 1y ago

hi nostr:npub1hz5alqscpp8yjrvgsdp2n4ygkl8slvstrgvmjca7e45w6644ew7sewtysa 👋😀

frphank 1y ago

> I see no ads and no influencers

Literally 80% of nostr users are Bitcoin influencers.

xtogro 1y ago

there’s a difference between influencing an idea and trying to sell some stuff. for me, value for value is the path to a new, humble creator’s economy.

frphank 1y ago

They're trying to sell you Bitcoin. Nothing more nothing less. Number go up.

xtogro 1y ago

some influence, some are excited, but what matters is that here, i’m in control