Nostr Web Client

Anarchism is truth. It is. It is nature.

We form tribes and nations to solve nature for our interests. Security and Health and the ability to specialize in skills, so not everyone has to know how to survive a brutally violent world.

However, I'd say we should be promoting Protocolism, if there is such a word. Not Anarchism. I want protocols that are open and free and anarchistic, but still provide the order. The rules that allow community and security, etc.

I totally despise most government, but I love my city's garbage and sewer system.

Rules without Rulers

Cutetug 2y ago

Love it

So, no police service? No zoning law enforcement? That would be a catastrophe on day one... 🤔

There is a lot of literature on the subject, I recommend The Libertarian Manifesto by Murray N. Rothbard.

No thanks. I've seen what Libertarian doctrine effects in practice.

Like in Houston, with extreme inequality between different zip codes, environmental protection regulation rollbacks that caused black people to get sick, etc

Houston libertarians? 😂 don't make me laugh.

It's an oxymoron to talk about state and libertarianism.

You're confusing mercantilism with libertarianism.

I recommend having an open mind. There are many ways to write the same program. No one says that you must accept sickness and poor quality building codes, a chaotic or ugly city, waste on the streets, etc.

I think the core argument bein made by #[3] is just that we don't need to involve a violent monopoly to have the same services and rules that we all would agree to. Just that it was done violently makes it illegitimate.

It matters how it's done. Do it the right way. The hard way. Allow people liberty and work to build systems that benefit all.

Incentives, not force.

I totally agree with you.

Sometimes rules need to be enforced. There are lots of people/corporations that would like to break zoning rules, and zoning rules really help foster calm and quiet residential areas. Houston is a complete mess.

Enforcement doesn't have to be violent and it doesn't have to be a monopoly. We each check the npub in our client. The client says, yep that npub who signed that message signed this profile saying this is who they are.

I think the most effective enforcement is nonviolent ostracization. Bitcoin does this with anyone that's mining an old fork. Ok, knock yourself out, but that's not my chain.

You see things like this, mostly, at the geopolitical level. Each agent being a sovereign and anarchistic entity. They don't use violence on each other. War costs too much to rely on violence at this level.

They threaten removal from trade arrangements, tariffs or refusal to associate to accept transactions over the boundaries. #[3] and I and other libertarians and anarchists, simply argue that this is how individuals should be treated. As sovereign. Each should be so costly to attack with violence that you must use legitimate voluntary association type responses to incentivize cooperation over conflict.

So if you decide to build a commercial establishment on your residential property, the reaction is what? It should not be allowed, and that residential zonig should be enforced.

It's not an "attack" if they shut down your new nightclub, bar, etc

I think you need to look honestly at yourself and ask, am I the asshole?

Who is harmed, by a property owner doing with their property as they wish? You don't have to go to this establishment.

This is called Not in my Backyard. NIMBYism. It's why affordable housing is difficult. People are permitted to build additional dwelling units which would provide plenty of affordable housing for everyone.

If what you're asking is in violation of the non-aggression principle or some violation of property rights and individual liberty, you should probably rethink things. You might be desiring the oppression of another and that is not compatible with true liberty.

*not "permitted to build"

A better example for good government is in the local grid. There's no violation of liberty, only cooperation. Everyone has to be on the same page regarding currents and appropriate treatment of waste.

Getting connected to these requires obeying some protocol and it's not a violation of rights to simply shut off someone, or reject new association, new connections.

Of course these could be used as carrots if these same institutions are also in charge of zoning, but I think zoning is a violation of liberty and allowing the power over this civic service to be used to violate an individuals liberty is going too far. That is an abuse of power, even if it is not violent.

TMIAHM is a fascinating idea to me: previous major changes/innovations in government structure and function have occurred from and within pioneering contexts, makes sense that a moon colony would be the same/next to innovate again

Top two for an interested noob (like me)

1. “Bitbutter” on Youtube — great animated videos explaining basic concepts/arguments (including a great intro series on BTC)

2. Chaos Theory, by Robert Murphy (pretty short essay and great intro to “market anarchy”; free downloads at mises.org)

Further reading I’m aware of:

- the Machinery of Freedom by David Friedman

- Robert Heinlein’s fiction, particularly Friedman’s inspiration — “the Moon is a Harsh Mistress”

Carlito 2y ago

Yeah, was about to suggest this by Bob Murphy one myself (animated by bitbutter.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8pcb4xyCic&t=1s

There's also a Machinery of Freedom one he did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTYkdEU_B4o

Or for anyone who's maybe considers themselves more to the left then could try some of the articles from more traditional anarchists on panarchy.org, this one is a good start https://panarchy.org/molinari/security.html , or contemporary writers such as Kevin Carson and Charles Johnson (Homebrew Industrial Revolution by KC is amazing)

Another great simple starting point is Matt Kibbe’s manifesto:

“Don’t Hurt People and Don’t Take Their Stuff”

Haven’t read it yet, but I think I’ll like it. 😌😏😂

Also, Free The People (.org) has it posted on some great merch, including Ancap stuff 🤙

Neopatriarch 2y ago

#[0]

Neopatriarch 2y ago

We're gonna be friends. 😁

🫂

Leo Fernevak 2y ago

I'm on the same page, I just use the terms voluntarism or free market.

Shrink government as far as possible, ie. this is an experimental approach and I can't know the optimal variables beforehand.

Let various jurisdictions compete for workers, entrepreneurs, capital etc. Individual liberties is then an arbitrage metric that can attract competence and prosperity.

Bitcoin makes this possible by enabling mobility and full property rights for all.

The final frontier is galactic decentralization where humanity establishes new civilizations on other planets and solar systems. That distant future involves the full spectrum of options and possibilities: pick which solar system you prefer.

Indeed. Anarchism is unfortunately a word with too much baggage.

I would also say that the main problem is the Federal/National State, not government of all kinds.

The best technology for the job should be used and for quite awhile yet, the best technology for the job will still be a few real people in meat space getting togther and pooling resources (voluntarily) and getting things done.

I'm happy to pay my city to haul off the garbage and maintain a sewer system.

Agreed, but counterpoint, local systems could be still be improved and efficiency, efficacy and fairness with voluntary contractual engagement and/or a more free competitive market.

Additionally, albeit inevitably influenced by the looming hand of the federal gov, it was primarily and mostly and local and state governments that imposed some of the worst, most abusive, lockdown policies in 2020. So 🤷‍♂️ tyranny def can be small and local too, just not as flashy and widely concerned with that way

Leo Fernevak 2y ago

Good point and counter argument. The sitiation was similar in Norway where certain cities or municipalities announced corona passports. (They were delayed so I'm not sure if they were implemented, probably not)

This is an interesting conflict where the government can be less restrictive than a local municipality or state. However, we must not forget that these local decisions can be impacted by government control mechanisms where the government shifts the responsibility and blame to the state or municipality.

In either case, local tyranny can be escaped if we have mobility without restrictions. Since governments can restrict movement, it exacerbates the outcomes of bad local policies.

Definitely, but you're responsible for that. Don't let tyrants take over your local systems. You're right there. Do something about it. It's yours. Get some people together and chop off heads. They live right down the street from you, those tyrants.

Leo Fernevak 2y ago

Anarchists are generally my kind of people. Lots of great, creative individuals with zest for change. Having more experimentation in terms of lifestyle options would definitely be a good thing.

That's also why the space frontier is inspiring; all the new possibilities that it would allow for, even though I would be buried and gone by that time.

Neopatriarch 2y ago

Does your happiness have any bearing on who picks up your trash? Is there competition to do that. Can you just not pay and do it yourself? How does their rate compare to that?