Discussion
I absolutely agree with you regarding not messing up the base layer.
It’s paramount that #Bitcoin works without hiccups. We are not in a hurry to deploy more things right now. The world is slowly catching up to what #Bitcoin actually provides as is. There are other alternatives for the moment and there are solutions for privacy as is also.
Slow and steady wins the race!
Keep up the fantastic work!
The earlier comment that had me thinking is whether the drivechain proposal is just a private group passing messages to each other using the base chain.
It sounded like they could just go ahead and start storing data (because it’s not against the current protocol rules) and there was little that could be done about it given bitcoin’s censorship resistance.
It’s hard enough to make a case that we need drivechains. But it’s even harder to make a case that we need drivechains NOW. I say punt and revisit in 5-10 years. There is nowhere near consensus on this so I’m not worried.
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you are right in your basic approach but there are changes that can boost bitcoin scalability that are developing for several years now, just like LN had to take shape through many iterations
the DC group's best service is in waking up the discussion regarding next steps and creating interest by wider cohorts of users regarding many alternatives, some very promising
Valid point.
Drivechains do move the needle more from miners as rational self-insterested actors towards miners as custodial trusted-third-parties.
There are good reasons to want this, and also good reasons not to want this. For example if we get this right, the bitcoin security model can be sustainable for centuries (it isnt now) and also it removes an upper bound on the price ceiling, wrt that security model.
It's good to understand the reasons for and against.
Remember that the term "maxi" was a slur invented by shitcoiners to divide the bitcoin community.
Let's keep it civil, that's how we win!
You handwave through your main point. Why isn’t the security model viable?
Fee revenue can stay constant in Bitcoin terms (~25M sats/block) and totally pay for the security of the system. Today that means a reward of ~6.5 Bitcoin/block. In 5 halvings, that means ~44M sats/block.
So all Bitcoin has to do to meet today’s security budget is hit the purchasing power equivalent of ~$450k today… by 2040.
I somehow think it’ll do far better than that.
I don't get it, weren't you telling people to use Monero?
We just had Taproot which "unexpectedly" allowed NFTs to spam the base layer much more easily. Absolutely no further base layer changes for 5 years unless it's an emergency. I certainly won't be updating my node.
Bitcoin has a lot of bright developers but developers like to develop things.
This seemingly constant need to mess with the code base drives me nuts.
Blocks come in every 10 minutes and that's enough. Go play with Taproot for a year or two then we'll talk.
nostr:note1mj79c9fz3wkpd0764uf5pc9f82jstpc2ndemu5c8jd0f7tfz3ddspge7k7
I find it difficult to sort through the bip 300 discussion.
The proponents are obnoxious.
Given where things stand now, it is not obvious that drive chains are good. If you could rewind, they may have been an elegant solution to keep everyone “in house”, thought I doubt that. Seems like bitcoins sharp early rise was too appealing and other altcoins yearned for a similar zero to one.
Now that the cat is out of the bag. The reality of altcoins has led to key differentiators between bitcoin. I don’t see why it would be good to bring all altcoins back under the bitcoin tent.
I think Lopp warned against ossifying too early as btc could be frozen out of really useful functionality. This seems reasonable to consider.
It’s just that for me, bip 300 feels like a Trojan horse.
No to drivechains. Yes to liquid now & maybe fedimints in future.
A combo that works now: Bitcoin mainchain (Sparrow/Coldcard) <=> Liquid (SideSwap)
Yes to a permissioned network with less privacy (only hides amounts) than a privacy coin, then later switch to a custodial and rehypothecateable IOU?...Some bitcoiners have lost the plot huh
~45min interview with Scott Millar of SideSwap
Bitcoin doesn't have to be more powerful. I only has to be enough...
Paraphrasing Tomer nostr:npub1mz704n7dsaw3jcj3kr5le45n97tqughyt5lxe3yv3xy3025hv3dsp5tl8g 😂
Text and context!
He seems to totally miss the point. Correct me if Im wrong, but it seems like you aren't shilling monero. You're telling him to go use it instead of fucking up Bitcoin.