Subnostr

The people defending the changes keep telling me that they're not a problem because they only do things we can already easily do.

That the changes create no effective change.

Okay, then why implement them, since they add complexity and decrease intercompatibility?

And why not offer solutions first, that are less dramatic, like a spell-check in the client, obvious annotations, or simply time-limited edits?

And why the rush on something so fundamental, sowing chaos, just as Nostr was really taking off and new development teams were starting up?

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Discussion

Laeserin 1y ago

Also, the timing is suspicious.

I try to watch the NIP repo, but I've been watching the Madeira stuff and the conference, so I was caught completely off guard.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

there isn't any change to NIP-01 that i can see yet

breaking changes are not ok, there is no need to make breaking changes...

bitcoin has no breaking changes

golang has no breaking changes, even though they talk about a "go 2" in the future i don't think it will ever happen there is just no need for it

Laeserin 1y ago

He didn't change the NIP-01. He overloaded Kind01 in the Twitter-clone feed with a new kind that has no NIP.

So, now most people have a Kind-01 feed (which was the minimum viable Nostr product) and his users have a Kind-01+ feed.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

and afaik they aren't doing it by adding a "replaces" tag, which would be completely backwards compatible

Laeserin 1y ago

This is definitely a unilateral Kind01-feed breaking change, done while most devs, analysts, and commentators where busy elsewhere, and rushed through on the biggest client despite an ongoing debate on this delicate subject in the NIPs.

Slam-bam-thank-you-ma'am, but in purple.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

i've been predicting for some time that they'd try this kind of shit in the group who have push access to the nips repo... and that eventually there would be a need to fork the spec because of that one going full retard

the deleting contributor credits was the red flag for me

Laeserin 1y ago

And then it turned out that it was the biggest client, who did it. We all forgot about implementations being part of the protocol.

Don't need a NIP, to crap all over the protocol.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

primal or damus?

is this why the noise about primal lately?

Tuvok 1y ago

i use nostrudel now

but yeah whats the noise about?

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

nostrudel user here too, and because it let me test my relay properly because it uses outbox model and actually respects setting only one relay

Tuvok 1y ago

i am pretty happy too

but i dont know all features

i never use the discover button

but sounds helpful

Laeserin 1y ago

Amethyst

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

i hate amethyst

i've got it installed but it's not that great

looking forward to when the damus android finally drops

Laeserin 1y ago

People use Amethyst because other people use Amethyst.

It's become the Microsoft Office of Nostr, and it's correspondingly shit. The biggest data monster evah, and stuffed full of features most users will never use, but that don't help powerusers accomplish anything complicated.

Purple Big Ball of Mud.

But we can change that. We aren't client hostages.

Laeserin 1y ago

Primal just had a normal update and is doing some marketing.

Amethyst dropped a monster update and broke the Kind01 feed protocol by introducing edits and forking.

cloud fodder 1y ago

I'm not really understanding why its bad, afaict it doesn't mangle kind one events.. the worst that can happen is a client doesn't know it's been edited.. is that correct?

I dislike changes when another client can't read a kind one tho, like the image posting wars, or even the quote tagging wars, but this doesn't seem like one of those 🤔 yet 😂

Laeserin 1y ago

This is worse because people will see a different chain of original notes and not all of the notes will be Kind 01.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

definitely keep talking about the problems, file issues on the nostr-protocol/nips and choose and praise clients that don't mangle it

i think so long as replacements require consent from teh original poster AND that the user looking at them sees the replacement only if they are following the replacer it should be no problem

i think if they break the security of identity in the protocol they will get hammered hard by the narcissitic, accusatory types who get a thrill out of ridiculing people and everyone will realise the mistake and laugh at the idiots who made it

Laeserin 1y ago

I'm going to auto-unfollow any npubs who let other npubs edit their notes. Keep that creepy influencer shit out of my feed.

Putrick 1y ago

Is this a thing? How do i prevent that from happening with my notes?

Laeserin 1y ago

It's a thing on Amethyst.

You can prevent them doing it to you, by refusing their change request notifications.

Laeserin 1y ago

Or just don't use Amethyst.