Nostr Web Client

Look, if the FBI or other 3 letter agencies want to find out all your financial activity they'll probably be able to no matter the source of money you're using. What I'm saying is that LN is good enough and its getting better. There's unannounced channels, multi part payment and trampoline routing. More recently (and yet to be fully rolled out) are bolt12 and blinded paths. Then there's also all the ecash mints which give an anonymity set of all the users in the mint.

There are other tools too. Coin joins like join market and wasabi (joinstr also in testing phase). There are state chains and UTXO swaps. There's liquid, there's silent payments and there is payjoin.

There will be more too. I'll admit that it is slow but eventually there will be privacy focused wallets that do a lot of this in the background giving the user the "landing" your meme suggests. For now there's some hoops to jump through.

I don't really have a problem if people want to hold bitcoin and whenever they need to spend they swap into XMR for the payment. I just don't think its necessary and you definitely don't want to be holding it for too long. It also doesn't guarantee absolute privacy (especially for noobs).

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

>"if the FBI or other 3 letter agencies want to find out all your financial activity they'll probably be able to no matter the source of money you're using."

Then why are you trying to attain privacy at all if you believe this?

Unnannounced channesl ironically gives up plausible deniability and doesn't offer you privacy from your counter party

Ecash anonset is fractured between mints and is custodial, so you introduce the ability to get rugged, fractionally reserved, or shotgun KYC'd

Everything else you listed like Silent Payments only solve part of the problem (receiver privacy - and is less effective without the others). It's a mishmash with no comprehensive solution.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

OT 1y ago

I think they have bigger fish to fry. There's still a cost to take someone down.

If you don't do anything like KYC'D base layer bitcoin it exposes you to $5 wrench attacks and social engineering attacks too. You have to do something to at least stop this.

I meant the individual mint. You have an anonymity set of everyone in that particular mint. Yes, its custodial so that's the trade off. There is apparently a way to pay a LN invoice from various mints but I think it isn't released yet.

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

Then wouldn't it make sense to increase the cost/difficulty via the best possible privacy so that further shrinks the pool of users they can realistically go after?

I think ecash is neat, it's the best form of custodial so far, and use it too for zaps on here, but it gives away one of the core attributes of Bitcoin (doesn't remove trusted third parties) so I don't think it's usecase replaces Monero. Even Calle the creator of Cashu has said the same thing.

What I meant was Monero has a global anonset of all users it's users, while ecash will always be smaller since it fractures by the nature of being split among many different mints. Additionally, the anonset is further split inside each mint since token values have their own anonset buckets (1,2,4,8,16,32, etc). Yes, I believe its called multi-mint payments. I don't think it's out yet either. Definitely another improvement.

Hanshan 1y ago

whats this now?

why do individual mints split up the anonset internally?

i think i saw Calle messing around with multimint payments...

extremely alpha implementation of course.

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

"Larger amounts most likely have less good privacy properties, due to their token denominations being rare. Cashu uses fixed (power-of-2) token denominations to create a hide-in-the-crowd effect. But the larger a token gets, the more likely it is that fewer and fewer of them exists, and at some point there is no crowd to hide anymore. If there is only one token of a specific denomination, it can always be linked back to its creation."

https://docs.cashu.space/faq

Saberhagen The Nameless 1y ago

I should also correct myself for anyone reading this. Monero anonymity set of all it's users only applies to receivers right now. But FCMP will put sender privacy at the same level eventually.