I am, but so what? It doesn't matter for my salvation. Married/single doesn't matter. Participating in communion doesn't.
Are all those good things? Yes. But they aren't necessary at all for someone to be assured of their salvation, which is what I consider if primary importance.
No one said they are necessary for salvation. Is that what you think a sacrament is? Something necessary for salvation? What makes you think that? Having a salvation checklist type of thing is largely a prot belief
Well, I am mostly a protestant. So... What's your point? I don't see the point of emphasizing certain things as "sacraments."
Iβm asking you why you βDGAFβ about your own baptism if you βDGAFβ about sacraments. Why βGAFβ about marriage, do you think Jesus βDGAFβ about his baptism either? Your perspective is one I have never come across before. A Christian who βDGAFβ about their own baptism. Iβm flabbergasted
Makes more sense why you donβt go to church. Whatβs the point if you DGAF about anything that happens in church π€·πΌββοΈ
Yup. I have that effect on people.
Jesus was baptized to fulfill prophecy.
Christians are supposed to be baptized to renounce all previous covenants in a public declaration of their acceptance of a new covenant with God.
So, it can be a big deal, but it's not anywhere near as important as simply accepting Jesus as lord and savior. Not equivalent, not necessary, not a big deal.
If thatβs all baptism is for you thatβs sad to me. So for you baptism is just likeβ¦. Making a statement ? And thatβs literally it?? Thatβs soβ¦. Empty
I wouldnβt go to evangelical church either since thatβs all it is I guess. Donβt blame you at all for not going and not wanting to go to church. That is so depressing.
Yup.
Why complicate it?
It's not empty. It's a declarative action. But it's not necessary. It's not as important as the important stuff.
No itβs empty compared to high church traditional Christianity. Because thatβs just one tiny tiny small part of the initiation sacraments in Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and high church Protestantism. Iβm genuinely so sad for you that youβre missing so much. I didnβt realize evangelicalism was that watered down!!!! This is really eye opening for me!! I had no clue
So for evangelicals baptism is just a statement and otherwise unimportant???
"high church." π
I very much agree that modern evangelical protestantism is watered down.
Why are you rolling your eyes at βhigh churchβ? Thatβs what itβs called so why eye rolling emoji?
I know the term.
I detest it. It's snobby.
Youβre the only low church Christian Iβve met that thinks itβs snobby? Is that an evangelical thing too? Amish people and Quakers and other low church Christians donβt seem to care that Iβve talked too?? Anecdotally I guess but youβre the first person Iβve met with strong feelings about it
I have strong opinions about things that are dumb to have strong onions about, but, hey, I'm an idiot. π€·ββοΈ
I was raised in a Protestant church and Protestantism pushed me away from God not toward God. I went from Taoism to Deism to now back to Christianity because I found Orthodoxy. I'm not baptized and I don't go to church mostly due to none being near me but I plan to visit one as soon as I have the ability to.
I hope youβre able to!!! You could try planning a monastery trip! They sometimes have guest areas so you can stay overnight
No one said they were necessary for salvation?
Eucharist: "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life within you."
Baptism: Mark 16:16 βHe who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.β
John 3:5 βJesus answered, βI tell you the truth, unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.ββ
Confession: "Whatever you hold loosed on earth is loosed in heaven and whatever you hold bound on earth is bound in heaven."
So yes, someone said that. It was Jesus.
Cherry picking bible verses like this is usually extremely frowned upon in Catholicism and way more common with the sola scriptura crowd tbh but also these verses arenβt really stacking up to what youβre trying to say. Especially the baptism and confession ones. Youβre leaning really far into Pelagianism. You canβt freewill your way through a checklist of sacraments as a way of buying salvation. Sorry. Thatβs genuinely a heresy in Catholicism, orthodoxy, and mainline Protestantism
What?! No. Sacraments are not a good work to earn God's favor. Sacraments are a visible sign of His grace. The church has always taught that baptism is necessary. The sacraments are the Avenue that God gave to humanity to encounter Him.
Of course the caveat is that the sacraments are the Avenue that God gave us. He is not constrained by them and we can hope that He saves those who have no access to His sacraments as He did with those who lived before Christ. But God is free, but we are bound by the commands he gave us. I am not "cherry-picking" verses, those are some of the verses that the church herself references.
You are cherry picking verses and itβs very jarring when self identified Catholics do that because itβs so frowned upon in Roman Catholicism to do that. Like really really detested within Catholicism.
I have no idea how I am cherry-picking. Am I missing a broader context? Are there verses that say the opposite? Catholics aren't allowed to quote scripture? By your definition I can't quote scripture unless I post the Bible here whole and entire.
What is frowned upon is using verses out of context in a way that the church herself never used them. That isn't what I am doing. I am using the verses as the church herself uses them.
You are cherry picking and simultaneously kind of butchering the catechism of the Roman Catholic church in the process w your attempt to idk summarize some of its entries on a few of the specific sacraments. Also calling the RCC βthe churchβ to an Orthodox Catholic is p cringe. The RCC considers all orthodox sacraments valid but the reverse is not true at all so itβs justβ¦. Quite Jarring.
Summa Theologiae, Tertia Pars, Q. 60 to 65.
Q. 61 specifically: The necessity of the Sacraments
My version is in portuguese. I'll try to find an english version so I can quote for you.
Iβm familiar with it because I grew up in the RCC but Iβm Orthodox now and Orthodox Catholics donβt particularly follow anything Aquinas wrote including the summa!
You can post the quotes in Portuguese though I can use translate buttons on my phone haha
Now you got my attention! Would you mind explaining why?
Heβs post schism! So heβs only venerated in western dominant churches like RCC, Anglican, Lutheran etc- heβs not venerated or even named as a saint at all in Eastern Orthodoxy. He was mid 1200s! Panis Angelicus is a phenomenal hymn tho!!!!!
What about Saint Augustin?
Saint Augustine of Hippo? He is pre-schism! Venerated by all who venerate saints!
Augustine, quoted on the Summa
I like that quote!!! Thank you!!
There are a lot of St. Augustine quotations on St. Thomas Aquinas works. I'm pretty sure he is the most quoted.
Maybe you are familiarized with the Catena Aurea, a compilation of commentaries by the Church fathers. There are plenty quotes arguing the necessity of the Sacraments by authors like St. Jerome, St. John Chrysostom, St. Beda...
This is my everyday reading: the daily Gospel and the commentaries on the Catena Aura about that passage
Mark 16:16 is also used by the Orthodox Church to demonstrate the necessity of baptism. Orthodox also hold the Eucharist as necessary. That is why the give it to infants at baptism.
Baptism and communion are two separate sacraments in orthodoxy that are administered one after the other. Itβs not βgiven at baptismβ please stop cherry picking bible verses and butchering church teachings in my notifications
