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Instead of posting a couple of useless links, tell me what exactly isn't correct here. Is there a blockchain, everyone is sharing? Go ahead:

"quantum computers will also see thru your technique...no?"

No. Can't read the blockchain on LN because there isn't any. LN isn't solely a #Bitcoin software, it can work on top of other chains too.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

You don't need to have a blockchain to probe the network for data.

The links are for you to read because you seem to think Lightning is some impenetrable privacy fortress when it was designed around quick off chain payments. Any privacy is an afterthought or happy coincidence stemming from ephemerality of being off chain.

It also suffers from the same category of problems, optional instead of default privacy, just like Bitcoin. Meaning ignorance or friction involved will keep ~99% of users from using it semi privately. Using LN in any sovereign, private manner is definitely not for new users.

Let's take one of many metrics and get some insight into what users are downloading:

Custodial (no privacy)

Chivo ~1 Million

Wallet of Satoshi ~500K

BlueWallet ~100K

Bitcoin Beach Wallet ~100K

Non custodial (without node, not trustless, no privacy)

Phoenix ~50K

Breez ~10K

Non custodial (with node, potential privacy)

Zeus ~5K

Wow! How surprising!...

There is a reason no one uses Lightning on Darknet Markets.

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Discussion

Secretary Janet Yellen 2y ago

You're wrong on two points. Everyone holds blockchain in monero forever. In LN, somebody would have to collect and store the data to have info from a single (one of many) hops.

BlueWallet isn't custodial. Keep up.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Only holds true to passive adversaries and only as long as they remain passive. Any adversary that cares WILL actively collect and store LN data. They already do this (chain analysis and governments). So little real world difference.

Blue Wallet WAS custodial lightning. They don't offer it anymore as of April.

But sure focus on the 100k downloads and ignore the other 1.6 million custodial downloads. lol. Virtually zero people use Lightning privately. Congratulations if you do, honestly. You walk the walk.

Secretary Janet Yellen 2y ago

Don't get triggered, I just pointed to the parts you got wrong.

Again, every single monero node is collecting all the network information and will keep it as long as the network is running.

There's NOT such a thing on #Bitcoin #LN. There MIGHT be someone collecting and keeping information for long time, but NOT EVERYONE. Please confirm you do understand this point.

LN isn't just Bitcoin and it might one day be implemented into monero too because AFAIK, it cannot scale without L2.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Extremely triggered reporting for duty

It's a weak point, who cares, I already said you can have the 100k Blue Wallet downloads even though we both know 90% of them aren't running their own nodes. It's like you are concerned with a mouse on the floor and ignoring the custodial elephant in the room.

Secretary Janet Yellen 2y ago

Again, every single monero node is collecting all the network information and will keep it as long as the network is running.

There's NOT such a thing on #Bitcoin #LN. There MIGHT be someone collecting and keeping information for long time, but NOT EVERYONE.

Please confirm you do understand this point.💜

Corrado Alvaro 2y ago

💜🫶