If we assume on-chain fees remain cheap and accessible, then all Fedimint really does is allow users to give up full self-sovereignty in exchange for easy onboarding. A decent trade-off for some, but not super game-changing. But if we assume on-chain fees are going to exponentially rise, Fedimint has a very strong use-case as a scaling solution. It's built to solve a problem that largely doesn't exist... yet.
Discussion
I don’t know how to do large scale non-custodial onboarding into lightning without using fedimints as a stepping stone. “Just use WoS” is a recipe for disaster.
What's wrong with using something like Phoenix which is non-custodial?
I like Phoenix myself but I’m guessing the fees to open a channel when you first start using the wallet aren’t ideal for a lot of people.
Can’t receive offline
Initial channel fee before you can begin
Most banks charge a fee for people with cards, but refund it if you keep x funds in there is that something a node operator could be incentivized to do?
Also, as for transacting offline, that's a privacy thing right? Cuz I live in BFE and have service.
Mobile lightning wallets are offline when the app is not open.
Refunding the channel opening fee is infeasible at the moment, because this would only be economical after the user has spend as much in forwarding fees (and then some).
That's my point though, is it possible that a wallet could have enough bitcoin and channels that they could have a policy to refund that after some formula is met? I know we're still early on, I'm thinking like post-hyper bitcoinization
Sure. Just like with credit cards today, an LSP could offer a service where they refunded you parts of or the full channel opening fee after X amount of volume.
But unlike with credit cards, you’re the one that will be paying for the transactions (not the receiving party).
force closing if you forget to open the app and approve a zap
That’s due to how it was implemented in Zeus wallet. Other non custodial wallets can’t receive at all (unless running a full lightning node all the time).
I’m talking about sending from a non custodial wallet like mutiny
Huh - was unaware that *sending* a zap could lead to a fc. I thought it was always caused by the receiving wallet not finalizing the HODL invoice.
Thanks! Was unaware.
Could WoS and Alby somehow pivot to support or help with this?
I imagine on chain fees will continue to rise with more adoption so it’s solving problem that many people on the other side of the world face today with high on chain fees so I’m all for fedimint as a scaling solution.
Are on-chain fees cheap and accessible right now? It truly depends on the use cases. Some use cases are completely impossible today due to on-chain fees.
I wouldn’t say on-chain fees are cheap or accessible today.
If you’re moving lots of Bitcoin, then sure it’s cheap. But smaller transactions exist. And it’s big business.