Replying to Avatar cloud fodder

Lots of thoughts on this. I've built basic Allowlist and Blocklist functionality and support for nip51 lists into relay.tools already. I think that it will take a multi-faceted approach to achieve what you're talking about. It's not as simple as having generic lists. Creating pubkeys is too frictionless for blocklists to function on their own. Incentives for moderation on it's own, also, not going to work. I think a community approach to lists and moderation could work but does require a moderation team that is aligned to a particular goal. Once this goal is achieved communities could potentially work with each other to collaborate on lists.

You're right about it being controversial, anytime I mention it someone attacks the relays with some random mess of stuff to try to break things. It's annoying but it also shows what works and what doesn't.

Clients like to think they're using a serverless peer to peer network but this is not how relays work. Someone is on the hook for storing and relaying the data (in clear text!!!) so it's selfish and naieve for a client to just say 'no blocking, only client logic'. I encourage anyone who's kneejerk reaction is such to consider what it's like to store and relay someone who you don't know's data. It's an important distinction and if we get this wrong we will end up exactly like big tech with a centralized 'relay authority' deciding for us or simply no one wanting to run a relay. Right now, I gotta say that incentives to run a relay are slim to none, so I hope that savvy nostr users enjoy and understand the tech enough and will come around to being more supportive.

You’re so right.

We need more paid relays, but I think over time free relays will die off naturally because it’s unsustainable. On top of that we need more robust relay software including the ability to manage one’s own filters. It’s where I want to spend time.

For now though, I think I’ll build a blocklist manager that just allows someone to manage and publish NIP 51 lists as a proof of concept for aiding people trying to moderate their own feed.

Regarding blocking npubs not being enough, I agree. I think having blocklists include hashtags would help as well since a one npub <> one note setup would make it hard for unsavoury content to be distributed without communication off Nostr…or a hashtag.

I think that will be a good start. It’ll evolve if it solves problems people care about.

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Cool, yeah it'd be great to have more tools to manage these lists. Keywords are also something that relay.tools supports in lists, though I don't think nip51 has keywords 🤔. I'd also be very happy to accept ideas and modifications to relay tools, it's opensource and I could help you get a development env setup if you're interested.

If you want to see the current state of things and sign up for a testing relay I'll refund you the sats. relay.tools, GitHub.com/relaytools

You’re totally right, I’m gonna keep digging because there’s some combo here that I think could be the foundation for the solution.