Subnostr

They would need to charge at least 75% per annum in interest on the debt, to even have a chance of breaking even.

Which means you loan them 100 BTC and they pay you back 1641 BTC after 5 years, and you have no profits.

Try to find someone dumb enough to agree to take that loan.

You're like wow, these stupid religious people don't understand how great interest-bearing credit is. Why should they change that under Bitcoinization, just cuz their faith makes them totally regarded?

No, you are not willing to do the math. Bitcoin determines what form of financing makes sense and it is the anti-credit money. If you want to offer credit, then you will have to do it in a softer money. But why would the workers and suppliers accept your soft money, when some other group is like, Yo, we'll pay you 100 Bitcoin!

Yes, the people who offer Bitcoin will always have the advantage. Cry harder.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

essentially, a hard credit system depends on people having savings, and keeping savings depends on the money not being inflationary

so, if you have a system with a non-inflationary money, you can't toy with credit unless you have high confidence and a big reserve to back your ass up when your bet goes south

we'd get rid of the entire VC fluff and endless makework and people wasting their time on highly speculative bets if we had hard money, and that would result in ... more results, instead of people getting paid to do something nobody is ever going to pay for

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

this is amply elaborated in Mises' book Human Action by the way

savings are an essential part of a healthy economy and with fiat money there is none, and so it's brittle and unstable, and ultimately unproductive

vinney...axkl 1y ago

I'm well aware.

How an individual chooses to use their hard-money savings is up to them, including loaning it to others with an agreed-upon interest rate in a free-banking system.

Interest payments are merely the price of the "service" of acquiring access to capital (real, saved, hard money) sooner rather than later.

Laeserin 1y ago

Yeah, you know people contributing 10 BTC aren't going to be passive, indifferent investors. They will be construction site tourists. They will expect regular tours and published accounting, monthly meetups to track progress and find out what the next steps are or what difficulty is underway.

People who invest their own hard-earned money really care. And that is the way it should be. We should not all be holding ETFs full of shares from companies we've never heard of that build stuff we don't care about.

Stock market circus and derivatives nightmare over.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

and we are seeing this play out with nostr development, it's a beautiful thing

Laeserin 1y ago

💯 Everyone who is funding or working on projects is highly invested in the development here, which is why so many of the most-popular accounts here are dev accounts. People want to hear about the new button or how you fixed the menu item bug and added some new feature.

People pay real money here. They ain't playin.

banjo 1y ago

Compound interest enslaves people - pure and simple.

If you can't afford it...save the money, then buy it.

But DON'T take out a loan, and pay interest on it...

(And don't get me started on fractional banking--which relies on interest bearing notes)

Laeserin 1y ago

Fr. Maybe you just can't afford a cathedral and you need to get over it.

Or you need to build one out of wood, cuz it's way cheaper.

Or you just get a chapel, and that is also nice.

Live within your budget, instead of pulling income forward with interest. That is spending future income that may never exist.

vinney...axkl 1y ago

In a hard-money, free market system, the money represents real resources (this is a good thing. we agree).

In order to loan someone money, you would have had to save it first, representing a a deferment on claiming the real resources (this is what savings is). The monetary supply is unchanged throughout this process. We're not getting anywhere near fractional banking, don't worry.

"If you can't afford it, save first" sure, this is a choice someone can make. And a fine one.

But so is "the timing matters to my enterprise and I suspect I can do even better if I start today with a loan. If I start _now_, my expected revenue will more than cover the interest payment".

Why are you so insistent that an individual shouldn't make that choice for himself and his business?

Laeserin 1y ago

The only "Bitcoin loans" we've had so far were unbacked. They just sold the Bitcoin, traded altcoins, and then tried (and sometimes failed) to get back into Bitcoin when the loan came due.

One collapse after another.