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Having principles is what makes us European, tho. We always need to justify our actions to ourselves.

I think it's a feature, not a bug.

Yes, but you have to admit that we're doing it pathologically now. What principles oblige us to take in people who openly declare their hatred for us, and that they want our demise ?

For example, it's one thing to speak out in support of Palestine and it's another to say "France will become a muslim country in the next decade and there's nothing you can do to stop it". Or that they're here to take revenge on France for perceived oppression during the colonial era.

This should have no place in polite society.

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ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 0mo ago

nothing polite about megalomaniacs intent on sowing discord.

Finrod Felagund 0mo ago

The muslims doing terrorism apologia, openly declaring that they want to rape and exterminate french people, the constant aggression against innocents to settle "old colonial score", yeah that sows a lot of discord. These aren't fringe case, it's my day to day life arguing against people who say "well Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan had it coming". This should have absolutely no place here.

Our own megalomaniacs are a different problem that we can deal with separately.

nami 0mo ago

I have to tell that not all muslims are a problem. For example shia muslims are quite ok.

Finrod Felagund 0mo ago

Brother, I grew up in Lebanon under Hezbollah's dominion. They are not quite okay. They're as aggressive and as intolerant as their sunni counterpart, but they're just smarter about it, about how they achieve their goal. So they appear "quite okay"

Finrod Felagund 0mo ago

And yes, it's not all muslims, since there are individuals are who quite okay. But these are individuals who managed to break free from the collectivist yoke that islam has, islam being a very collectivist religion by nature.

Laeserin 0mo ago

Mental independence is a Christian idea. We have a very personal God, who wants us to choose to love Him, so He gave us free will.

Everything else is more or less tribalism, that's why they have all of these complex rituals and clothing and dietary rules and etc. It's a massive tribal burden, that comes along with their religion and makes it impossible for them to adapt to other cutlures.

One reason Christianity spreads so fast is because the outer yoke is so light.

Laeserin 0mo ago

I pray all Muslims will come to understand that Christ is the resurrected Son of God, and not merely an important prophet.

That is pivotal to receiving Grace and learning to live in peace.

Finrod Felagund 0mo ago

Yes, like we pray for all sinners. And we could still fight back against them all while upholding this prayer !

Laeserin 0mo ago

Of course.

Laeserin 0mo ago

> it's my day to day life arguing against people who say "well Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan had it coming".

😟 Horrific and against the values of the republic. No "fraternity" there.

Finrod Felagund 0mo ago

well, the "Ripoublic" has been like a prostitute opening its legs. I would love to see France free from its republic.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 0mo ago

also, just sayin' as i sit here in a run down old village house in the middle of nowhere, by european standards, "we" does not include me.

i can smell the cordite and charred bodies in the near future, and i don't intend to be incapable of feeding myself.

collectivist, political speech is inherently divisive and antagonistic. i'm a peaceful guy, and my preferred military strategy is:

Finrod Felagund 0mo ago

I understand. And if it's ever up to me, I would do all in my power so that no harm ever comes near this village in the middle of nowhere.

But perhaps this is a difference in our respective temperaments as human beings: I do not wish to run away. Looking at the western world, with respect to all the rest, I see many things worth fighting for, many things worth protecting. And that includes this village of yours in the middle of nowhere.

This is my personal conviction.

Laeserin 0mo ago

Same.

I'm very much the type "the best defense is a good offense".

It's gotten me in a lot of trouble, in my life, but it's also gotten me out of a lot of trouble.