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1) agree, bitcoin is used mostly in fiat market and this is a shame.

2) bitcoin can be used for blackmarket easily. Monero could be part of a money laundering strategy for very expert people, but today with lightning it is become completely useless.

3) IDGAF about etf, thats not a point. ETF on monero is impossible as it wpuld be just a tend-to-zero function.

4) If you trust monero for preserving your financial privacy you are delusional. You should do the proof of work of understanding how bitcoin works and take some real privacy for you.

5) money have value if people hold it and want to hold it, this is just a basic and important concept. Still, I think you should own monero if you think its valuable, have fun.

e8cd2bec... 1y ago

1) Agree

2) Anything is possible. Bitcoin could make a comeback for black markets if it gets better privacy layers. I would love that. It's funny that many point to Bitcoins price saying how it is right when it comes to that, but then pull a 180 and say the market is wrong about Monero when it comes to black markets. No one uses Lightning there and Bitcoin is falling out of favor. Just look at any of the popular DNMs

3) Yep ETFs miss the point. A permissioned Bitcoin IOU is oxymoronic

4) Historically you are right, but it's a great digital cash.

5) You're wrong about that. It's always been MoE -> SoV. Saifedean and his ilk have mislead many by popularizing this narrative:

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Discussion

ponymontana💜⚡ 1y ago

about the 5), "transmitting value trought time" is your first definition of money, and is a point where bitcoin excel and monero fails. With lightning bitcoin become better in trasmitting trought space. Still monero is also bad in trasmitting trought space, as is designed to being pretty unverifiable as more people would ever start using it.

007dffeb... 1y ago

First, it's not my definition it is the definition of the most renown Austrian economists who popularized the field that Bitcoin maxis are ostensibly fanboys of (Menger, Mises, Rothbard, etc)

Monero is constantly transmitting value though space just fine especially where i matters (free markets AKA black markets). If it becomes a SoV is yet to be seen since as it's currently in the MoE phase which is a precursor to SoV.

Gold total supply was never "verifiable" (and still isnt), but it still became money for humanity for thousands of years.

Yes, lightning is also transmitting value through space in tinier amounts, but almost entirely through custodians which defeats the entire purpose of Bitcoin (removing trusted third parties). There is almost no reason to use Bitcoin over fiat if you are trusting third parties and asking permission anyway. Maybe you guys will fix it's UX deficiencies at some point, and proliferate self-custodial permissionless transactions, then you'll have a stronger argument.

ponymontana💜⚡ 1y ago

lightning frankly is just good todsy in UX, with a solution like phoenix you have bolt12 for hinding sendere/receiver and a fantastic non-custodial UX just with a smartphone app. If you are a bit more techie and want to try something more powerful and sovrein you can try zeus that start working well.

If you want to take the things serioisly you can always run a node.

I things the UX is became better than monero, its only that people understand how a shitcoin works, and lightning need too study a little the new thing.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

i've heard monaros citing the "can't scale to everyone" argument which is absurd because everyone can't use monero either

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

they don't understand that lightning uses onion routing to send payments, it's pathetic

🤦🏼‍♀️ 1y ago

they do, you just don't listen.

Nope 1y ago

Lightning users love to point this out, but it's only somewhat similar to onion routing.

Every node on Tor is directly connected, or has the potential to directly connect, with every other node. Lightning Network payment channels do not fully-connect.

The entire network and the network topology is also publicly known for routing nodes and natural incentives of this mean traffic consolidates to a few large nodes negating any remaining similarities or benefits of Tor.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

so, is this your 50th new npub or what?

Nope 1y ago

So is this your 50th attempt to dodge or what?

Nope 1y ago

No, what happens is Bitcoin maxi say Monero can't scale, when not even lightning scales without 100+MB blocks right now. So it's a moot point you guys bring up.

ponymontana💜⚡ 1y ago

the point is, from these words you are saying, you have no understanding of what you are talking about.