Subnostr

Serious question:

Is there a use case to BIP 300/301 (Drivechains) that ISN'T putting more shitcoins on Bitcoin?

Yes, there are two important use cases of BIP300.

The first is non-custodial zcash (or Monero) type privacy. This is much better than shitcoins like Monero, because it uses Bitcoin and makes it impossible to distinguish between regular and private transactions.

The second is scalability. Blockchains do not scale, but 10 large block sidechains could scale to billions of people. Instead of centralization of nodes, we have L1 fully decentralized (and thus the 21 million is secure), with L2s that are slightly less secure, but FAR more secure than custodial wallets or LSPs.

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Discussion

AJ Nobody ⚡🏴 2y ago

Thanks. Seriously.

The "we're going to kill shitcoins by putting them on Bitcoin" really wasn't working for me.

BTCapsule 🏴 2y ago

Yeah, maybe eventually. But we can already do the most shitty of shitcoinery on L1 anyway, so might as well create sidechains in case someone comes up with an idea even stupider.

Ike 2y ago

You can't have monero functionality while also being able to verify coin supply. Monero sidechain will have zero benefit to users over monero shitcoin and 100% benefit to miners.

Sidechains as scaling solutions is also useless. People can already benefit from working L2s without them being linked to miner revenue. Again a "use case" which only benefits the miners.

DCs will only boost miner revenues with zero to negative value for the rest of the network. Therefore it's easy to discern who is funding the hype around those BIPs.

https://invidious.protokolla.fi/channel/UC6U89haDyR8lul2LdiqTsmA

BTCapsule 🏴 2y ago

I watched these videos, and none of it is really a problem. The critique is that blind merge mining will devolve into classical merge mining, which solves all of this (in the rare event it happens).

Then we have L1 miners running full nodes. This is also not a problem or change of miner incentives.

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Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Or copy full-chain membership proofs*

Monero's next major upgrade that does away with ring signatures and puts its privacy about on par with Zcash. I'm not 100% certain about the performance differences compared to Zcash tech, but fairly sure Zcash is still more burdensome to process by a significant margin.

If you think many sidechains could scale, why not simply scale by using different crypto that already have these desirable properties? Each with their own trade offs/use cases (the same way Litecoin usage spikes when Bitcoin fees are high). The only difference between them would be that sidechains are pegged to Bitcoin price ostensibly. But for short/medium stretches of time that could also be a bad thing.

Building out atomic swaps, DEXes, and UX/UI around them will continue making this easier and cheaper to do

With the ongoing anti-sidechain sentiment from maxis I feel like it will be such a long shot getting sidechains onto Bitcoin...on top of also trying to capture existing network effects of every crypto that is copied. I'm all for more options, and wish you luck, but it just seems like swimming upstream from where I'm sitting.