Nostr

Welcome to nostr, and so that your first response is worthwhile, let me disagree with you!

In lightning, if you run your node software correctly, nobody can steal from you.

This means an offchain utxo settled in a lightning channel is "as good as" the utxo onchain, and thus both fall under the base money category.

However everything else, like account based (wallet of satoshi), ecash based (cashu, fedimint), sidechain based (liquid) has a third party (federated) custody model where you are at the full mercy of the custodian, this makes it fiduciary media, money warehouse banks with notes that are redeemable at par for base money (onchain or lightning).

U 2y ago

Haha thanks Max!

Perhaps you are right in the long run, but for now I think the definition of "run your lightning node software correctly" is too vague, cuz all sorts of details on how to keep your offchain utxo dry so to speak...

Like if you have a watchtower, then you don't want to SSH into it from the same machine as you SSH into your lightning node, cuz if you are hacked, chances are that the hacker got access to both node and watchtower(s).

Little things like that. And who runs a watchtower these days anyways 😏

#stillearly

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Discussion

Max 2y ago

Why is that categorically different to the technical challenges of securing an onchain singlesig utxo?

Like keeping the private key secret, running a node or wallet without back doors etc.

U 2y ago

You oc has the challenge of keeping you keys safe, but you will have those challenges after settling a lightning channel anyways, so those evens out.

For a channel specifically you have something unsettled. That is, there can exist multiple unpublished txs in competition with each other. We use timelocks to try to favor one tx over the other.

I see it as a hare vs tortoise version of the double spend problem.

If the hare sleeps or it's house burns down and it looses its TX it looses the race to the tortoise.

Only when settled the Bitcoin is yours.

U 2y ago

Also with ln you need your machinery online and so the last resort option of buy and hold for 10 years while being in a gullack camp doesn't work well with your ln node

@pkt can I get an amen?