I saw a bunch of people on their telegram who were upset about new fees. Sounds like a double dipping situation on the surface, but I’m not sure I understand it either.
Discussion
Fees are more on lightning sends for sure. I'm waiting on Zeus to enter beta then I think I will switch to their on device node implementation.
To be clear I still really like a lot of what it offers. There are just some changes with the update I'm still a little learning and on the fence about. I am looking forward to Zeus as well. Optionality and use case I suppose.
I though lightning was supposed to save you from fees. I would have paid less on chain. Wtf?
You pay the miner fee for sending to an on-chain address, plus a swap-out fee to Phoenix
But it seems like they often (aways) overestimate the miner fee like 2x 🤦♂️
🤣 some of the straight LN fees I gotta be honest are a little 🤨🧐
"So how does all this actually work?":
😂 so much though
This was a lightning send to boltz, not a send to BTC address within Phoenix. Those are lightning fees!
🤯
Weird that it’s reflected as a BTC address though
That is simply a note I put in the description.
Ohhh got it
Maybe I should give Breez some love and try using that some more 😂🤔
Big fan of Breez
I'll send some over to fool around with, it functioned very similar to the way Phoenix used to from my brief playing with it a while back.
Yes but aren't the fee much lower with the new Phoenix than Breez flat fee in % with a minimum of 2500 sats or so?
The minimum 2500 is just for the channel open, if you open a channel large enough that 2500 should be one time barring any other onchain channel openings or fees to withdrawing on chain. And previously both Breeze and Phoenix functioned this way. So LN payments were much cheaper than the initial flat fee.
Now Phoenix is charging .4% per tx on LN, and apparently my inbound capacity can be shrunk via splicing just by withdrawing on chain. My fees in Phoenix have jumped considerably with the new splicing update in just LN tx alone.
And if I need to be constantly opening and closing channels again if I go over my now lower inbound capacity before withdrawing on chain, I'm not really seeing this as lower fees than before. If anything on LN I've been paying 4-5x what I was before in fees.
Head back over to nostr:npub1hcwcj72tlyk7thtyc8nq763vwrq5p2avnyeyrrlwxrzuvdl7j3usj4h9rq until this new update and fee structure is understood. WoS seems to always work. And you can get a custom Lightning address.
Breez seems to be pretty straightforward to me if you’re still looking for self custody Lightning.
Alby and WoS are good for zapping and better interoperable with some withdrawals from other apps like fountain, less fussy, but for my self custody lightning definitely sticking with Phoenix and Breez for now.
More just taking note after having used it a couple weeks.
nostr:npub1ex7mdykw786qxvmtuls208uyxmn0hse95rfwsarvfde5yg6wy7jq6qvyt9 works well for zapping too. Strike is by far one of the most versatile applications when it comes to a payment rail. It’s absolutely game changing.
Big fan of strike for my KYC’d DCA too
Such a backhanded thumbs up for nostr:npub1ex7mdykw786qxvmtuls208uyxmn0hse95rfwsarvfde5yg6wy7jq6qvyt9 😂
Removes leather glove slowly, raises it slightly and whack to the right cheek very hard.
Breez works well. The one question I have about Pheonix…the seed phrase you get, can it be used with another wallet to restore?
In Breez you get a 12 word “seed phrase” but from what I read on Breez it’s not actually a seed phrase and it can only be used to restore you wallet on the Breez platform.
Can anyone clarify the same for Pheonix please…
I think it's the same, it functions also as a way of the channels are forced close your BTC would be redeemable by that seed phrase on chain..... From my limited understanding
Others may have better insight to this.
breez : NO.
unless you love random channel force closure
It is on chain you sent to a btc address not a lightning address
This was lightning to lightning. That is just a note I entered in the transaction for myself. I was using the external boltz swap service to maintain my channel size in Phoenix, the atomic swap happens after the lightning invoice is paid. This is a standard lightning payment.
On-chain fees are a function of transaction size and congestion. Lightning fees are a combination of baseline and percentage of value.
So for small amounts, Lightning is cheaper. As the amount gets larger, there’s an inflection point at which on-chain is cheaper. Your transaction crossed the line.
Great answer 🙏
I set up Mutiny wallet today. Did a transaction of the same size. Cost me 11 sats for the fee.
I also have been doing this for months with Phoenix, and the fees jumped up big time. I've already closed my Phoenix wallet and switched to using Mutiny. In my testing today fees were incredibly lower, over 6000 sats in Phoenix vs 11 sats in Mutiny, for a similar lightning to lightning send.
The difficulty I've been having with mutiny is the lower my balance gets the more "failed to route" errors I get. It was a struggle to get my balance under 1000 sats and I still can't send any payment out with my balance at 643 sats. And I had to keep lowering the outgoing payments until I reached this standstill.
That’s a weird one. I had a similar issue with BlueWallet before they shut their custodial lightning down
💯 always choice