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I have been doing more research on #bitcoin KYC and non-KYC and all I can really say at this very moment is that KYC is retarded and treats everyone like a victim, which of course we all know this. Don’t get me wrong, I love Bitcoin, and I think it solves a lot of problems and its store-of-value case is very strong. I think if the US goes on a Bitcoin standard, it would be phenomenal. I am focused on hard money and avoiding debasement in this regard.

However, lack of privacy and the ability to be able to trace the origin of the Bitcoin (?) if I were to even swap KYC Bitcoin for #monero? i haven’t done this, and once I switch back to Linux I will be taking advantage of RoboSats or Bisq, but the fact that we have to try this hard for privacy is infuriating. To fix the money, I think we would have to just have it similar to how the gold standard was considering I have more privacy using my credit card than using bitcoin.

It’s a huge conversation with lots of grey area. We could theoretically call Bitcoin freedom money, but at the same time — most people buy it through a regulated KYC exchange (including me) and once that’s the case, you basically have your hand held the entire way. Big brother always seems to be watching 👀

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Discussion

Vyram Kraven 4mo ago

People don't understand that using kyc methods contradicts the whole point why it was invented. The point was to spend money without taxation. But low & behold convenience in exchange for knowing how to tax ur sats. Bisq is probably the onky reliable way to exchange never tried robosats. But if privacy is the concern use monero. The whole public ledger is a trail of breadcrumbs you just follow the trail line until you get to where you need to go. Address1 -> address2 -> address3 -> & so on all the way to your offline wallet.

4 4mo ago

Yeah that’s what I mean. To be completely clear, I am fully against KYC. I think it’s ridiculous. But I am also a realist. I don’t mind KYC (I hate it, but I’m referring to the context of this specifically) for buying Bitcoin because it’s obvious it could be on its way as a world reserve asset. I have no problem complying with laws and holding an asset like Bitcoin and using it accordingly. I think it would be wonderful for quality of life if we could go on a Bitcoin standard in the US (where I live). We just have to be honest about Bitcoin’s use case(s).

But, I am not a fan when people act like with all these magic tricks we can make Bitcoin like Monero. It just won’t happen. And the lightning network will most likely not be used for every day transactions. We’re gonna still be using USD but backed by Bitcoin, in my opinion at least. You’re spot on about Monero though, I agree. In your opinion, what do you think the reason was for Satoshi choosing to make it public? Do you think it would still be as big if it was private?

Vyram Kraven 4mo ago

I think it's a spyop. The whole concept of a permanent log record on the internet in a block on the blockchain that indexes them does not make sense. Companies don't even keep sales records forever eventually they get rid of them why does the idea that a permanent transaction record is needed? What are we doing to a block when we "mine" it seems to me mining is computing software to decrypt encrypted information.

Maybe the "value" in mining is reading the decrypted data which theres no way to say there isn't a telemetry being read from running a pool for others to come in & mine. It could be a operator of a blockchain is using other peoples electricity & pcs for their own benefit with ai. That would be a grand scheme on a super scale call me crazy but why couldn't we do the same system without the mining process & a public ledger?

It seems to me like if people know a future currency not bitcoin it's just a point system with zero records only the 1% would be the first to put out there that it's worthless because theres no way to know how people are spending. Nobody should know how your spending whether you go to a deli, pharmacy, or sex shop.

Even if it's just an address, amount, & timestamp that's still more then enougj for ai to be used to track it down. What if we just had bitcoin's point system which seems to be decimals & once it hits a full number somehow it's gunna reset what do you think?

Hanshan 4mo ago

it comes back to trust actually.

nobody would *trust* Bitcoin if the ledger was obfuscated. transparency was necessary for the 1st-mover.

normies have come to *trust* that Bitcoin can't be hacked or created out of thin air. normal, non-technical people now understand nobody can spend from an address that belongs to another. this is because of the cryptographic fundamentals but they aren't auditing the code themselves.

in this same way, people will come to *trust* the cryptographic proofs that Monero uses to guarantee supply and hide sender, receive and amount.

it will become normalized that these systems function correctly, despite not knowing exactly HOW they work.

We all are placing trust at some level and it's important to be realistic about *where and *how that trust is given..

Parallel Structures 4mo ago

I like monero, but the inflation rate makes it a bad store of value. Seems like you only want to buy it when you need it.

Hanshan 4mo ago

how about gold?

its inflation rate is higher than Moneros and its been a stable SoV for 4000 years.

the hard cap is the 2nd major design flaw in #Bitcoin.

MoneRogue 4mo ago

XMR is better being a medium of exchange than a SoV in my opinion.

Parallel Structures 4mo ago 💬 1

Agreed

ClippiePrivateer 4mo ago

Bitcoin is banker compromised and may even be a trap. Go to Monero to save the world.

onthephone 4mo ago

Oh, brother. Smh. #BCH has so much more to offer.