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I think we tend to confuse “schooling” with “education”. To me, someone’s level of schooling of very different from their level of education.

HoloKat 2y ago

Fair enough. I am just trying to assess how much schooling the people had - the ones who say school = bad.

I’m not judging, just want some context behind their claims. I can certainly understand how schooling past a certain point produces worker drones without creativity. But I’m also a practical person who needs to hear practical solutions not just fluff ideas. I mean those are fine too, I’m just trying to assess how much thought someone really put into their ideas.

Very open to everything but also question all of it.

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Robbrinded 2y ago

Questioning everything is a fundamental principle for us too. School doesn’t incentivise this. Our project will have everything focused around problem solving , critical thinking and lateral thinking. We will have a robotics lab, coding and also an ex special forces soldier showing problem solving through making fires etc but kids choose what they learn

HoloKat 2y ago

I like the sound of it. I don’t think I disagree with anything here. Not sure about not incentivizing questioning - because naturally when you learn you tend to have more questions.

Robbrinded 2y ago

Agree with you- schooling system doesn’t incentivise questioning because if every kid question the information they were receiving it would be chaos in a classroom 😂

HoloKat 2y ago

That’d be funny.

Robbrinded 2y ago

😂

Sikto 2y ago

Not true.

Sikto 2y ago

As teachers we are always asking our students to question their ideas, the ideas of their peers, and to question our instruction. It’s the complete opposite. Our classrooms are a place that fuels curiosity and allow children to explore the world through their own understanding and worldview.

Nancy Kweka 2y ago

I don’t think teachers are being attacked, I think it’s the idea of schooling as sort of an industrial production line. Your classroom sounds like a pleasant learning experience, but unfortunately, more often than not, kids end up in schools and classrooms that don’t nurture their curiosity for various reasons, e.g class size, needing to “get through”curriculum, teaching for testing etc

Sikto 2y ago

It’s a fallacy. It’s not a production line. Every school is different, every classroom is different, and every teacher is different. Yes, the curriculum is the same, but we all bring our own personal philosophy to it.

Nancy Kweka 2y ago

I’m curious, what country do you teach in?

Sikto 2y ago

Canada

Nancy Kweka 2y ago

👍good to know there are some great teachers out there encouraging kids to ask questions! They’re lucky to have you :)

Nancy Kweka 2y ago

Also, are you talking about private schools or government schools?

Sikto 2y ago

I’ve taught in both. Aboriginal schools too.

Robbrinded 2y ago

When children are forced to go to school and to follow a curriculum then they are having to conform - this is the production line. There are amazing teachers out there my whole family are teachers but the school system is founded on coercion

Sikto 2y ago

Come on. Coercion? Curriculum is used to coordinate efforts and to make sure jurisdictions are meeting certain thresholds. Conforming to what? Learning to think critically? Learning to read? To do arithmetic? Learning to use the inquiry method? Such horrible things to “conform” to.

Robbrinded 2y ago

Still coercion - do you like being coerced ? I don’t

Sikto 2y ago

How are my students, or my four children who attend school being coerced?

Sikto 2y ago

Strong words have implications

Coerce - to persuade (an unwilling person) to do something by using force or threats.

Is that what you think happens in schools?

Robbrinded 2y ago

Of course

Sikto 2y ago

Then, I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavours.

Robbrinded 2y ago

Much lover brother - we all need to deeply observe and understand the current system even when it’s uncomfortable. We, I, are all deeply conditioned

Robbrinded 2y ago

Did they have a choice to go or not?

Sikto 2y ago

Of course.

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

In many countries homeschooling is outright banned and government forces children to go to school. For example, it is this way in Germany, Sweden, Norway, Austria, Greece, France, Finland, Spain, Belgium, Italy, Portugal and many others. In some of those places they literally take away your kids if you do not conform.

Caleb McDonald 2y ago

No coercion going on here… 😏

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

What about mandatory "Critical Race Theory" and "Sex Ed"? Do you think it is good that kids are required to learn that they somehow are oppressors or oppressed based on their skin color? Is it good that they are taught at an early about "gender identity" and that having gay sex is normal?

Sikto 2y ago

I have no idea what you’re fling about. I’ve never taught any of that in any school or classroom I’ve been in. Where I teach, nothing is “mandatory”.

Sikto 2y ago

Talking

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

I never said that you personally did. I just noticed that those are mandatory subjects in Canadian schools in response to you implying that nothing horrible is being taught to kids and mandatory curriculums are a good thing.

Sikto 2y ago

I can’t answer your question because I have no idea what those things are because I don’t teach them. I’ve seen them discussed in reference to some states in the US. They are not taught in the jurisdictions that I teach.

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

Interesting, you must not be teaching in Ontario then. https://www.ola.org/en/legislative-business/bills/parliament-42/session-2/bill-67

Also, it seems that CRT is named differently in Canada, but the overall concept is still the same. Here is an article that explicitly talks about CRT being implemented in Canadian schools. https://slowtowrite.com/critical-race-theory-in-canadian-schools/

As for the Sex Ed, I am pretty sure it is being taught in all of the Canadian schools regardless of a province. Check this comparison out and keep in mind that it is from 2015. https://globalnews.ca/news/1847912/sexual-education-compared-across-canada/

Sikto 2y ago

I’m not. I’ll let you in on a little secret. Most teachers don’t care about “mandated” curriculum. It’s impossible to fit everything in and we are really good at weeding out the bullshit.

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

I doubt that teachers who specifically teach CRT and Sex Ed, somehow manage to leave everything from the curriculum out. Unless they manage to omit 100%, it is still incredibly harmful.

HoloKat 2y ago

What’s wrong with sex ed?

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

I don't know, maybe teaching young kids that they can choose their gender and go mutilate their bodies in order to fit their new "gender identity"? Or showing them basically pornography and telling them (if not encouraging) that boys engaging in oral and anal sex with each other is completely normal? Maybe I am old fashioned, but I think it is completely inappropriate for strangers to talk about such things with kids under any circumstances.

HoloKat 2y ago

When did they start teaching that? I’m out of the loop for many years now

Sikto 2y ago

🤷‍♂️

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

Weird that you as a teacher haven't heard about it. I get that you teach math, but you still supposedly should be more familiar with the school system than I am.

Sikto 2y ago

I would wager that I am. This is what I have been trying to say all night. Every classroom and every school and every school district is different. Every teacher is different.The curriculum is grey around the edges, and we tailor it to our students in the place we are teaching.

HoloKat 2y ago

This has also been my observation from the limited time I was in classrooms as a district IT tech. Most teachers were passionate, and methods of teaching varied a lot.

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

You can pretend that this stuff is not being taught all you want, but it is a fact that these subjects are in the curriculum, the textbooks are actively being produced, bought and used in schools in many countries.

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

Differs from place to place, I can not tell you the exact year. It probably started in 2015 or even earlier and has been gaining major traction in many American and European countries since 2019.

HoloKat 2y ago

Which schools? Because states have different curriculums.

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

Do you want me to name exact schools? I am afraid that is too much to ask. If you genuinely are interested in this subject I suggest you do your own research. You can also check out this article comparing Sex Ed curriculums in Canadian provinces. It is from 2015 and they already had gender identity included at that time. https://globalnews.ca/news/1847912/sexual-education-compared-across-canada/

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

Here are a couple examples of Sex Ed from UK and Switzerland.

Sikto 2y ago

Look, there is no denying that there are problems in our education system. There are bad teachers, there are bad curriculum designers, and there are bad schools/school districts. Unions protect bad teachers and most school districts are too top heavy, with more money being spent on administrators than in the classroom.

I entered this conversation because I don’t believe that they are “factories” producing “mindless” adults who can’t think for themselves and are being coerced to “conform” and that they are drillling out the curiosity of our children.

Homeschooling is a great option for many families, and many of my friends do it. I also know of many families who can’t, or don’t know how, to properly educate their children.

Bitcoin for President! ⚡️🔥⚡️🍌🍞 2y ago

💯

HoloKat 2y ago

Getting through is important below literacy level.

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

Where do you teach? In all of the schools that I am aware of students are only taught to remember someone else's ideas as if they are an ultimate truth by heart and are tasked to repeat them line by line.

Robbrinded 2y ago

Was wondering same thing - sounds like no school I’ve ever heard of and if it exists it’s amazing ❤️

Sikto 2y ago

Canada. I have taught in public schools, private schools, aboriginal schools and French immersion schools. Rote memorization is not the way we teach (for some thing yes, like memorizing multiplication tables)

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

What subject do you teach, if I may ask? In all of them except for maybe math or languages there is always some official narrative that is being pushed as an ultimate truth (even though often it is unsubstantiated). As in history, biology, economics.

PABLOF7z 2y ago

Questions come naturally (hence the reference to curiosity)

You don’t need to incentivize it just like you don’t need inflation to incentivize consumption.

Robbrinded 2y ago

❤️

HoloKat 2y ago

That may be so but you still need to introduce a way to discover questions. For example, as a kid I didn’t have much guidance from anyone and was not aware of things I could be curious about. Growing up in a poor household, neighborhood, town, you often have the scarcity mindset that doesn’t even allow you to dream. Some guidance is needed to introduce subjects to be curious about. For many that comes in a form of a parent but when the parent is financially insecure the kid needs other stimulation.

Nancy Kweka 2y ago

I hear what you’re saying, there definitely shouldn’t be a “one size fits all” approach to education. I think community plays a big part, I have helped homeschool a friends kids - she has dyslexia and dyscalculia. And even within that, we have another friend who comes over to help them explore making music (bc that’s not something I enjoy or am good at 🤦🏾‍♀️)

Robbrinded 2y ago

👍🏻

The Guy That Looked Into It 2y ago

I’d say that if a potential parent is financially insecure he shouldn’t start a family. Otherwise he won’t be able to raise a child properly and will inevitably outsource it. Which leads to kids being raised by the government in one way or another, and produces objectively dangerous dependent group thinkers which are a net negative for the humankind.

And when I say ”financially secure” I don’t mean that they need to be rich. They could just have a small farm and sustainably produce food for themselves, that would be more than enough.