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You clearly have no idea what markets are. The value, aka price of something is set by markets. The number doesn't matter, because over time, all other numbers come into alignment via arbitrage of all currencies and assets

Utility means little. It is only what people are willing to take/pay/exchange for a good. That amount may change due to more or less utility however over time. Currently, that people are willing to trade $200 (ish) of a good or service for 1 Monero.

Same for Bitcoin, only $100,000.

You keep getting hung up on the fact that first is fake and bullshit. That isn't accurate however, as fiat dollars absolutely have value. They have value because people around the world trade in it, pay fmduties and levies, taxes, buy homes, et al.

The fact it loses this value over time against assets is the problem. A home costing 3x income is now 10x, etc ...

Free markets are always perfect. buyers and sellers. Somewhat free markets are mostly accurate in the short term, and adjust over the long term to the new market forces and correct.

Currently Bitcoin has a market value of over 500x that of monero. The markets have spoken so far.

This will only get larger over time however as has been the trend since 2018 when it peaked against Bitcoin.

You may value private transaction, as do I, however it is clear that the markets, AKA people, do not in any real way.

mbl 1y ago

It's incorrect to say we are in a free market, we are not from a long time, from the time perpetual futures are on. Big financial players like a bank can artificially pump or dump the price of the underlying asset. Assuming Bitcoin spot market (real btc to buy and sell) is priced at 100k, on the perpetual futures (fake btc to buy and sell), you can make a gap like pump the future to 150k or dump to 80k for example, and so the arbitration process will play it's role and the real market will be pumped or dumped, because of nothing, that's an illusion. The spot market is driven by the future market.

Futures seems good, but when you can perpetually hold a fake position, that's a cheat code.

That means we are in a full controlled and faked market.

But you know, there is other way to fake the market like Tether...

"The value, aka price" --> Price Is What You Pay, Value Is What You Get.

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Discussion

Liberty Farmer 1y ago

Like the other Monero bros, you are confused.

The actual 'price' of something in dollars isn't relevant. only how much of something is needed to trade for goods and services.

Markets allways adapt to outside forces. Always.

Hence why Bitcoin is 100k in USD, but a million in Argentina Pesos(I think, didn't look it up). It isn't 10x more valuable because of the number. The amount of Bitcoin or Monero or whatever that someone will trade for.

mbl 1y ago

Bitcoin is today $100k, so will you sell your house valued at 500k for 1 BTC ? No, but for 5 isn't ?

How can you say "The actual 'price' of something in dollars isn't relevant" ?

Maybe you are talking about a Bitcoin standard ? Well, if this happens, it will be a different story, but it will never happen until Bitcoin will become fully controlled by the authority, so it will be USD 2.0 ^^

Liberty Farmer 1y ago

I will sell my house for what I and buyers in the market say I can.

I would have to see if I want to take 1, or 10 or 50 Bitcoin

The same goes for gold, euros, yen, Yuan, ammo, guns, whatever I am selling my house in.

With a global us dollar standard you certainly may want to use that 'price' in assisting you, and people often do. But thsy is because we have been trained to think in dollar terms.

But markets don't have standards. My neighbor traded a horse a a donkey for tractor and some silver, and the deal was done

He didn't go look up the value of his horse and donkey in dollars, assess his feeding and boarding costs, etc .. he then didn't go through the tractor auctions and fetch a price. They offered, added some silvernto entice, and made a deal.

Recently I paid Bitcoin for some gunsmithing. I didnt even look up or ask his rates. I just offered and he accepted. Now he may have valued them in dollars, I can't say.

Or for some reason if you only want car feces in returns for instance, there is no active market for that. It would be purely up to you and the buyer to determine their values. a free and fair market.

But you are correct of course that most people think of price in dollars on high demand and traded assets. This will and has changed.

mbl 1y ago

I understand what you are saying, but there is a standard like it has ever be from centuries, today it's dollar, maybe tomorrow it will be yuan or gold or bitcoin, it's better for a stable economy, especially when it's a globalized one. Bitcoin as a standard seems to be a bad idea anyway, because after all it's a computer program, which can be hacked or something like that, Gold is probably the better option, what do you think ?