Fact: Russia invaded Ukraine a sovereign nation. It was not Ukraineās fault. That was wrong and a bloodthirsty attempt by Putin to take back more control and influence to have Russia be a world power at the world stage again, which Trump is helping him do.
WHERE THE CONVERSATION IS PRODUCTIVE: what should the U.S.ās role in this be? Should we be giving money and weapons to Ukraine? How can we promote peace and combat tyrants like Putin that are bad for Europe and the U.S.?
Russia did indeed invade Ukraine
Right to do so ? Debatable
Johnson stopped the peace accords, War was wanted. They got it. Pointless doing the Putin bad, EU good.
NATO has been pushing east after guaranteeing they would not, they wanted to force Russiaās hand , they succeeded. None of this is good.
20 years of endless war in the Middle East straight into the Covid scam war on the people, then that went straight into the Russia war and the Israel genocide. War is what is wanted. Putin is just a player like all the other players
Iām not attacking you Trey, Iām just saying the Putin bad mantra is ludicrous. George Soros is just as bad, Bill Gates is just as bad, Obama is just as bad, Rumsfeld, Wolfwitz, Clinton, Bush ā¦ā¦ theyāre all fucking with us. Tony Blair is vile, itās all game playing to achieve agendas.
US should at some point stop meddling completely.
Weāre here today in the Middle East and in Europe because of non stop meddling.
Stop advancing NATO, putting military bases all over the world and threatening war all the time
America needs to learn to fuck off for once
That can be one stance and a discussion for sure.
But Putin is gonna Putin. No excuse for his actions
Bro, solve the problems on your own half of the world š
"We are going to fix you from the other side of the world" š¤Ŗ
Do you have any idea how corrupt our own government is? Are you excusing their actions? How are we going to handle Putin while being backstabbed by our leaders?
And America is gonna America, a million dead Arabs over "WMDs" - far worse than Putin. Or maybe dropping two nukes on civilians?
America is in no position to be the a moral arbiter or world police. Just get your own house in order.
Perhaps I should say our house, since america is actively campaigning to annex Canada - exactly what Putin is doing?
But why canāt we (meaning us not a part of the government) criticize Putin and this horrific occupation? Like yes I agree with you on Middle East operations from the U.S. and how horrific that was (and how horrific Gaza is today etc)
But itās also like a deflection of what Iām saying about Putin. Not to mention the poising, jailing, killing of politic opponents and arrest and killing of people for exceeding peach against Putin/the state.
I hear you about āus government isnāt one to talkā and has definitely partnered with dictators throughout history. But us as global citizens can speak up, and I as an American citizen want to speak up.
Also U.S. hasnāt invaded Canada yet lolā¦
Get the beam out of your own eye before criticizing the speck in someone else's.
Yes Putin very bad. Many leaders very bad. But your OP is what "we" should do about it. And I think what is best is for us to stop electing war mongers and feeding the military industrial complex and expanding our threating position around the world . Usually the best road to peace is mutual trade and cooperation
I agree with this solution.
But how can we not let perfect be the enemy of the good?
Allowing Putin to just expand isnāt good imo.
In another way, electing Trump who wants to develop Gaza for beachfront property, also very bad! But many voted for him assuming it would be a break from military expansionā¦
Agree with nostr:npub18rdmnvrajwrp6srzpttz63934r58sh0sn9lwk3z57ykjzuzge4wqu6dhce . Your falling for the bullshit propaganda being passed around. The war mongers are the ones who pushed Russia to it's limits. No wars no profits it is almost that simple.
So Putin was justified in his invasion?
In my mind he was pushed to that point by NATO countries. Was it right? No, but no invasion ever is. People want to live in peace but until we separate money from State the sociopaths will profit from endless war. It could have been avoided with the peace accords but Johnson was sent over to say war is wanted not peace
Itās important not to mute if possible Trey, your opinion is always interesting as you see it from another angle. We all disagree often but itās good to express this. War is profitable, peace is not. Healthy populations are not good for Big Pharma either. Control and suppression of real information keeps us all distracted. Trump for all his narcissism is definitely opening our eyes alot more to how the deep State acts
Perfectly said !
It makes you wonder why the US were determined to silence him?
In my mind, the governmental figures on both sides are captured by the profit seekers. We need to dig deeper to understand who the true foes are. The last thing they give a shit about are the people who will suffer.
Mate, everything is going to plan. We are all slaves. The politicians are all part of the system.
There are many people that feel he liberated an oppressed people. Are you aware that Ukraine were shelling their own people before Russia stepped in? Are you aware that The Putin asked the EU to stop it but was told by Macron that the Minsk accords were not legally binding. Only then did Russia "Invade"
Fact check: false
What's false then Mr Fact checker?
Ukraine weren't shelling their own people
I think you need yo do some research
How about you stop spreading russian propaganda online
I'm not
You are literally repeating the russian justification of the invasion.
Am I? You are certain of that are you? Funny, I always suspected I was being surveilled. Unfortunately you are not correct. There is evidence for all the things I wrote. No, I cannot be bothered to do the research for you as you will probably just think it is fake. Personally I don't care what you think of me. You are wrong
Nothing is that simple and to suggest that it is aligns well with the propaganda.
The US role should be minimal if at all. Collapsing support will force Ukraine to compromise and end the violence which they should have done a year ago. There is no happy ending for them and prolonging the conflict only gives them a worse outcome.
You cannot have a productive conversation about this issue if you ignore all the antecedents to Feb 2022.
This is by far the most comprehensive telling of that story:
https://www.amazon.ca/Provoked-Washington-Started-Catastrophe-Ukraine/dp/1733647376
Had Zelenskyās predecessor stayed in power (even if a significant portion of the population didnāt want that) and they didnāt push for NATO membership, would the massive destruction and death toll been avoided? This doesnāt make Trump right (much of what he said is false) but perhaps would have led to a relatively better outcome.
I think there is more to the buildup and history of the area this isnāt being considered - and honestly we donāt really have all the details but Iāve read enough to question the simple explanation you posit.
