WTF.
Phoenix takes 15k sats every time there’s a transfer?
WTF???
Discussion
WTF.
Phoenix takes 15k sats every time there’s a transfer?
WTF???
#asknostr
It only takes fees like that if it doesn’t have liquidity, it’s having to pay an on chain fee.
Now that it’s open it should be better?
What did I just open with Phoneix?
I’ll do my best to make it simple:
A channel is basically a bitcoin transaction that opens a connection to Phoenix and lets you send the BTC over Lightning, so you don’t need the more expensive on chain transactions after you have it in a channel. But you have to *start* this channel by sending an on chain transaction. This channel has BTC in it “as collateral” in a sense, so payments can be sent and received in lightning within that amount. Think of it like bandwidth. If there isn’t enough, you need another bitcoin transaction to update it. Let’s say your bandwidth is 1,000,000 sats, well then that means you can receive or send up to that much *without* having to pay those fees again, because that 1mil sats can be sent with lightning.
If you want to see your channel you can go to “settings” -> “payment channels” (under advanced if you scroll down a bit) and you can see the amount. Your balance is on the left, the max is on the right.
After getting this channel, you can now pay out as much as you have all over Lightning (tiny fees), and there will be some extra Phoenix has added as bandwidth for you to receive. But if you receive a bunch more without paying any out, you may have to update your “bandwidth” again.
One more question, can my challenge now receive fees?
How does that work?
Do you mean “channel?” Instead of challenge?
I’m also not entirely sure what you mean by receive fees, sorry.
This probably isn’t what you mean, but if you are asking if your wallet/node will route payments (get fees) for others, then no, you have to have multiple channels and be online all the time. Just not conducive to a mobile wallet.
If you are meaning something else, sorry for the confusion 😆
Phoenix takes 15k (usually aroun 3k at lower fees) to open and/or enlarge channel.
So if say you have 2m sats to put in and you send in 1 m
Phoenix will open a channel for you with maybe around 1.2 m capacity, meaning you can receive 200k more.
Now if you want to transfer in the other 1m you will not have enough inbound capacity so Phoenix will need to do another on chain tx to enlarge your channel which is another 15k at the moment.
But now you'll have a channel with around 2.4m capacity which is yours, forever so if you sent the sats back out you will have more inbound liquidity to receive more.
The same thing applies if you run your own lightning node and manage your own channels. Custodial solutions take care of all these complications behind the scene.
Thank you!
And now that I have a channel open can I receive fees?
No, your channel are open from you to phoenix, it's not routed anywhere else so I doubt any transaction will go through you.
But the channel is yours to use, this alone is already something I don't expect most people to be able to afford in the future, having one's own channel is going to be a luxury at this rate.
If you wanted to receive fees you need to run your own lightning node and open multiple channels to many other nodes. However, running a routing node for transaction fees is not an easy task and requires a lot of patience, experience, and time. Figuring out how to manage your liquidity and fee rates is an art, it's like managing liquidity between banks.