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If we don't get a Bitcoin black market, all Bitcoin will be KYC, they are already doing it with the travel rule.

In the near future stores, both physical and online, will be required to report who has paid with Bitcoin, and who has paid with Bitcoin as it is not considered money will have to pay capital gains in addition to VAT.

If they find out you have a big pile of Bitcoin, they may not be able to take your Bitcoin but they can take your house or put you in jail.

This is why it is important to create a black market, if you can subsist outside the state you no longer need them, they are the ones who will have to lower themselves.

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Discussion

Cyph3rp9nk 1y ago

A very easy way to use Bitcoin and create a black market, is to pay with Bitcoin and accept Bitcoin on all the things you sell second hand or used.

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roll_the_dice 1y ago

Everyone should read: Seeing Like a State

Papa Figos 1y ago

Let's create black markets with fully traceable currency, what could go wrong?

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Alternatively, be congruent and realize: the free market has already decided.

What do all the darknet markets use these days?

The right tool for the job.

#monero

Bruno Dias 1y ago

Using Bitcoin for black market activities will land you in jail or in tax authorities offices - don't forget all your activity is recorded in blockchain or mempool transactions - FED could also freeze your assets.

Cyph3rp9nk 1y ago

It is the only alternative we have, the rest are shitcoins, there are ways to make it untraceable, for the common mortals just use Lightning.

Bilbo Baggins 1y ago

Its not that simple. Lightning only offers privacy at higher levels such as bolt11 or bolt12. What happens if your peers are compromised? What if you make a mistake a year from now with mixing coins or sending to an already used address? You cant half ass it, you have to have perfect opsec, even with lightning.

Sandor Clegane 1y ago

I wouldn't say it is the "only alternative" but it is the only one without giving up behaviours that have ingrained themselves with the advent of modern globalism & online shopping...

Sandor Clegane 1y ago

We went down the wrong path & almost nobody wants to go back & take the other fork in the road.

Sandor Clegane 1y ago

Convenience is a drug.

Hanshan 11mo ago

dont do this unless you know what you're doing.

by which I mean you know *how to determine* what privacy guarantees you are getting.

Bilbo Baggins 1y ago

What tools do you believe will be able to achieve the anonymity required to transact on the darkweb with btc? Specifically? Nostr users are the best, brightest, and front runners of the newest tech within the bitcoin space, yet the majority of people buy kyc, use custodial wallets, and dont run their own btc node. It's clear to me that most maxis are not as conscious as you are about the gravity of the inevitable future. I would take a more pessimistic view of humanity inevitably complying with blackrock's PoS fork when they sell to institutional normie and etf portfolio holders, incentivized node runners, and starving miners that the best fork is theirs. Then, old fork coins are named dirty, they will be rejected by the nodes like leprosy.

Anchorite 1y ago

Won't more people use and spin up lightning as needed?

ᏳΛ†§฿¥ 1y ago

Bro uses WoS and is talking about privacy. Buy yourself some drugs on the DWM to test how much privacy your custodial gives you. 🤣🤣🤣

Sandor Clegane 1y ago

Who?

ᏳΛ†§฿¥ 1y ago

Op, doesnt understand the limited nature of lightning privacy. Why yall think there are so many monerobros nowadays? Cause it works.

Sandor Clegane 1y ago

So far.

Sandor Clegane 1y ago

I'm not betting on high tech tree level anything, I'm betting on skills, knowledge & nature.

Sandor Clegane 1y ago

Buying is relying on someone & something else always being there & always working...

ᏳΛ†§฿¥ 11mo ago

Self reliance is definitely better than any option, but it's out of reach for the vast majority of people

TheGrinder 11mo ago

Do you think that his WoS is actually KYC'ed or is it a burner email address?

ᏳΛ†§฿¥ 11mo ago

I think someone's lightning address says a lot about how much they care for privacy and anonymity. If they are willing to use a closed source wallet, for example, then the jump to noKYC bisq purchases is staggering. Username does not check out.

TheGrinder 11mo ago

LN is just a spending layer. You can use it without having to give up your privacy entirely and you nobody cares about losing 20-30 bucks if that wallet fails or rugs. You setup the next one. The HODL is something else and you don't HODL on LN.

ᏳΛ†§฿¥ 11mo ago

...or just use one that doesn't compromise on usability, privacy, or security.

I have to ask, are you pushing all those utxos to cold storage in chunks of $20?

mac 1y ago

correctly analyzed 🫡

Comte de Sats Germain 1y ago

What's really needed is private transportation. They'll monitor all points of sale, so we need unknown physical transactions. It won't matter if they monitor the blockchain if we can actually physically transact privately.

Fabian 1y ago

Bitcoin is under attack.

Morpheus 1y ago

Doesn't paying over lightning obscure source?

Cyph3rp9nk 1y ago

Yes

Hanshan 11mo ago

How do you know?

as a LN user how do you determine the anonset of a tx?

Hanshan 11mo ago

You can't be sure it obscures it from a 3rd party

and it DEFINITELY doesn't obscure it from the routing node.

gbs 1y ago

Black market won’t solve the problem. It draws more attention and the seller could be Ross-ed. In Brazil we live in a grey market due to the taxes. Grey markets are amazing, in cash/lightning is close enough of a free market, and the psychological effect in the sellers/buyers is good. More sellers, more buyers, more free market

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1y ago

when you dig deep into the actual laws around taxation you discover that they are supposedly voluntary, though they make it read like it's death if you don't, that's why there is this expression "grey market" and i think it is a better word for it, it's where you are doing business but nobody is being hurt, only that you aren't paying protection money

as taxes and regulations get ever more retarded people find the grey market more and more interesting and turn to it more and more because they have to

it's notable that in much of the former communist bloc and current or former dictatorships across the world, the grey market is an open secret that everyone will tell you about freely once you have lived in the place for a while, i mean, EVERYWHERE here even in madeira there is many grey market trades going on, especially away from the dense population, almost nobody pays taxes and almost everyone trades with their neighbours, almost none of the retailers have card terminals or if they do, they don't use them or prefer to avoid using them, probably because they keep a lot of their income off the books

gbs 1y ago

nostr:npub1fjqqy4a93z5zsjwsfxqhc2764kvykfdyttvldkkkdera8dr78vhsmmleku it’s becoming often agree with you :)

TheGrinder 11mo ago

It's time to try out the peer-to-peer part of this electronic cash system.