The 21-Foot Handgun Drill is Bullshit, Always Has Been

This drill unfolds as follows: a guy with a knife in hand initiates an attack and usually "wins", meaning he touches the gun guy with a fake knife before the gun guy can fake shoot the knife guy.

As if that is a "kill". As if the gun guy can't now shoot the knife guy many, many times. But that isn't even the real bullshit.

Have the knife guy put the knife in a scabbard, and let the gun guy initiate the attack. The bull 💩 becomes instantly obvious. The real lesson is that the attacker, in all situations, tends to have the advantage. This is true from a street attack all the way up to state-on-state military conflict.

The attacker doesn't always win but, statistically, wins far more often than not. Look at every major war in history, and you'll see this is the case. In fact, the nations that we often say "lost" — like Germany in WWII — only lost when they stopped being the attacker and became the defender.

Some reading this won't like it because it grates against the "taught truth", but the taught truth is taught because it's seldom simply true. It is, instead, a construct that generally is false. In many instances, it's the truth hiding in a lie, as it is here.

What the drill should teach you is that having a gun doesn't guarantee you'll survive or win in a fight, even if your attacker doesn't have one. Substitute a hammer for the knife, and the attack becomes even more potentially deadly. You're more likely to survive a stab wound than a blow to the head with a ball peen hammer that can be bought in any hardware store for under 20 bucks.

You could be a Navy SEAL, a Green Beret — it doesn't matter. If someone wants you dead and you don't know it, you're likely dead. The most badass soldier you know can be approached from behind and hit in the head, resulting in death in less than a second. People hate this type of truth because it makes them realize how at risk they really are. That's the point of the 21-foot drill, but most people who teach it don't understand the real lesson.

#grownostr #gunstr #jacksthoughts

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Makes sense. The attacker usually picks the target, time and place to provide the best advantage.

Have you seen many head wounds?

They’re a pretty heterogenous group. Same goes for stabbing victims.

I’ve seen someone missing half their head survive, while someone with a seemingly small single puncture wound from a screwdriver dies. The reverse is also true. Small head trauma dies, multiple stab wounds victim survives.

Often less about the weapon, more about skill/luck of the wielder and/or bad luck of the victim.

What I have seen is what a ball peen hammer does to a head, right though the skull like it wasn't there. Anyone who lives after that will likely wish they had not. There are exceptions to everything of course.

Example, in Jacksonville when I was a kid a guy robbed a store with a handgun. Wrong store, clerk pulled a shot gun and blew half the guys head off (literally). The guy ran about 4 blocks with half a head and then fell over stone dead. He could have killed or shot people long before dying. Still a shotgun to the head is 99% of the time instant lights out.

This was a good day BTW for good people. The fuck bag that got his head blown off had the week before robbed a store and killed the clerk. The clerk was a woman and there was a customer who was there and was a witness. The scum bag got the money, put the gun to the women's eye, winked at the witness and shot her right in front of him and left without saying a word.

If only he'd of had a 00 haircut a week earlier.

I think I remember that one. Here’s something similar. That pic I posted on MeWe of the creeper in my backyard- I’m fairly sure it’s the guy who’s wanted for fatally stabbing someone two streets away about a week later. His victim didn’t die on the spot even though his multiple wounds were clearly going to be fatal. The victim made it several blocks before collapsing and dying. TV and the movies have completely twisted our perceptions of what guns, knives, and any potentially fatal weapon actually does. I know two people still alive who survived point blank shots- one a 357 to the chest and another a 22 to the head, but they beat huge odds.

It's best to train for multiple scenarios. IMO, having a gun for self defense beats any of the alternatives. So, yes, you can get stabbed to death while carrying a gun if the attackers surprises you. Situational awareness and some fast feet are often your best defenses. But you should still carry a gun if you have the skills developed to use it effectively.

This is actually a case for what I just said. It is the entire point just most of the "training" on this topic is fuckin retarded because it is only used to justify shooting people with a knife and the real lesson is lost. The real lesson is the case you just made.

I sum it up simply, "don't do stupid things, in stupid places with stupid people."

That is what stress to people when talking self defense. There is a limit. Someone can walk past you on the street do three or four quick jabs as they pass and you will likely be dead, if not you will have a bad time. And if they did it well you might never know who did it.

💯 give me a fillet knife in this scenario I can put it in your ribs, break the blade off and. you won't know it even happened until I am long gone and fall over and bleed out.

Sounds like some of the more important things to learn are how to go through life without angering people to the point where they feel the need to come up behind you with a hammer and how to identify people who might be more likely to do that and limit and manage your interactions with those people as much as possible.

Excellent points. In one on one defense, that is why the dog is a massive security boost. They always have their weapons ready and have faster reflexes than any human. They buy you time to flee or get to a weapon. 😎👍🏼

The initial publication re this exercise seemed more related to answering the question “why was deadly force justified when the bad guy was 21 feet away?” or “why should I bother unholstering if the bad guy is way over there?” http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Tueller/How.Close.htm - I took a Glock armorer class from Dennis Tueller in the mid-2010’s and he seemed like a pretty solid no-BS person.

This crops up as often as the shark changes it's teeth.

Why situational awareness is the #1 survival skill

It's called the Tueller drill. The purpose is to prove that the average person who doesn't train can be physically touched befor drawing from a holstered postition And placing an accurate shot on the target because of the stress that's induced from being attacked. Therefore, never allow someone you may suspect of being a threat to ever come any closer than the 7 yards, at a bare minimum. This rule is used to help justify law enforcement involved shootings. The idea is that even if you stop the threat, you've now Increased your chances of death if you were "touched". It's meant to be a very general drill that helps to illustrate the difficulty of high stress firearms engagement from a sudden or unexpected attack. I wouldn't say it's bullshit, but some people teaching it are probably bullshit artists.

And just for the record, the high level instructors I learned from all say create as much distance as possible from your threat especially if they have a knife. One exercise we had was to give one person a marker just to prove that if you engage a knifed attacker, you are very likely to be cut, as proven by the marker all over our clothing. The point was to expect it if you engage, and how to engage of you really have the need to, otherwise get away. Knives are far more scary because they're silent.

Actually, the IMI instructors taught us to run toward the attacker and engage as quickly as possible, of course keep an acceptable safe distance whatever you deem that to be. The Isralies are a little different in their approach, but the US military instructors don't suggest this to the civilian trainees.