Nostr Web Client

Replying to

signal_and_rage

So paid only relays is a game changer.

I’m not sure what to think, since I honestly have no ideas who is seeing what anymore.

Will be adding and subtracting pubic relays to see what happens.

nostr is for stuff we want people to see, but we are still building the tools to verify that it’s being seen.

pam 2y ago

I think diff paid relays behave differently, diff clients diff style

Iris lets you see all your network interacts, and their followers to the N degree - and removes the rest. I’ve not seen spams and I’ve had most of my followers.

Gossip reads from all, writes to a few and sends an event to broadcast to all

Paid relays like Eden let’s you read from all, write to a few and doesn’t limit global viewability (as they use a few algo and manual spam removal)

Paid relays like Nostr wine limits up to 3rd degree globally so if I’m your 4th degree friend, we can see each other - im not in favour of this as it limits global adoption.

I have not been able to see a lot of posts from a lot others and neither do I know how other clients and other relays works

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Discussion

daniele 2y ago

The clients/relays interaction is a really interesting matter, thank you for the sharing!

I think that a relay, after an acceptable spam removal, should not limit/reduce in any way a thread; if the client asks for it should be the full one and is a client matter to filter it using any logic. Let the relays stay simple, dumb and effective.

Are you sure that nostr.wine filters a conversation at 4th degree? Or this rule is applied only when requesting main posts (so Global)?

Gossip has an unque user/relay centric approach, in fact it promotes the use of nprofile (in short npub + relays); I really like it :)

pam 2y ago

Yea agreed on relay - also makes no sense if public view via npub or links from Iris.to, you can view it all, but not while on Nostr. Will look up for the info on 4th deg and share later. Brugeman separated relay attributes as well from npub friends of friends. Another limitation is someone from free relays responding on paid relays

Gossip sounds great, I’ve not test it out, but might be an ‘all or nothing’ mode - ie if relays don’t broadcast then you read what you are tagged only - and for it to work, you need to be an active follower - if you are a passive follower, you might loose out unless there are relays with specific interests for you to follow. I think Iris option is the easiest for global adoption right now but have to solve relay overload issue

daniele 2y ago

I agree that for a easy onboarding a full, but spam-free, discoverability is important.

Let see if #[6] can give us some insight on Gossip logic!

pam 2y ago

Sorry, long day! This on limitation on 3rd degree global view (diff from Iris). Also for paid read/write, if a paid relay user is unable to view public users relay comment on their posts, then it’s a bit like Jim Carey’s The Truman Show. You can see everything from outside of Nostr but not from within. Some relays that do the broadcast - is this part nip65? There’s a lot of innovative adoption for relays but I’m not too sure how gossip would work is all the relays behave differently. Also gossip is for large users and for users to crawl, so you engage another, get it broadcasted etc (active user). What if I just want to read (passive user) - these users are often times there for specific interests, so there might be a plus point to gossip to advance these interest-based relays. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, always happy to learn.

#[6]

daniele 2y ago

From the mentioned post I read:

> When you load your global feed, we only load content from your follows+their follows.

> When you click anything else (like a note or someone’s profile) we load EVERYTHING we have unfiltered from the archive node.

A note about that: a relay don't know what the client or the user do, can only deduce it by the REQ events. A REQ event with a date filter ("since") is highly likely to be used to fill the global feed. A REQ with a e/p tag is used to populate a note's thread. I suppose that nostr.wine works this way.

> it’s a bit like Jim Carey’s The Truman Show

I really like this! :D

The user can see everyting IF a contact (to the N degree) is present in the context, ex. post or reply to a post.

An user that choose to only use a N degree filtered relay for the global should know this limit; otherwise use a free-spam relay ad surf the global flood, or a free relay and fight the global caos :) Different options for different tastes/needs.

I think that we will soon see filters at client level, I'm working on this UX and I proposed it to Gossip too: https://www.figma.com/file/JJQwKYImD2lyzWR81fxo7w/Nostr?node-id=0%3A1&t=DaA8WkRIyXtiD9Lm-1

Gossip doesn't have (for now) a global view, so currently it is not the best tool for discovering new content/users. But you can access all the notes in a thread as long as Gossip can recover them, ex. following the source relays if embeded in the p tag.

I had not time to check the NIP-65, thank you for for remembered me to add it to the read-later list :)

PS: Tried again to zap: "Failed to process LNURL pay" :(

pam 2y ago

On the 3rd deg limitation, I don’t know how users will click and expand spread if they can’t see anything beyond 3rd degree. On gossip, I read from Mike’s note earlier that nip65 is only 1/3 of the gist - and kind-10002 is where the magic spread happens. Gonna look for rest to read.

I love this concept you designed. User motivation to curate their own Nostr experience is an important factor and a game changer in today’s social media dominant world that shapes the generation. Also “topic of interest” was a key component of Twitter - and it makes sense. I also think this would be a natural way to reduce spams as what might be spam to one, might interest another (other than the letters from the Prince :) )

PS : I’ve not checked what’s the problem with zap! But thank you for the thought !

daniele 2y ago

Tried to zap you but I got a "Failed to process LNURL pay" error, perhaps WoS is still having problems.

Why don't give a chance to the LightningTipBot? :)

#[4]

pam 2y ago

I think it could be my setting, i zap from getalby and receive it in WoS and have not figured out where i went wrong! I have lightning tip bot but let me see if I can fix this first :)

signal_and_rage 2y ago

works

daniele 2y ago

Still fails :( tested with Snort and Amethyst