What's relevant here is if OCEAN would broadcast that block find or not. Yes or no, if a miner submits a valid block find to OCEAN but they built the template in such a way that it excluded the pool fee and 100% of the reward goes to the miner would OCEAN accept it?
Discussion
Luke says that “How you choose to split up the reward, is irrelevant to mining being decentralized” that’s exactly opposite
Ocean is the central server that coordinates the coinbase split and sends it to all the miners connected to their server. Without Ocean you are no longer pool mining because ocean is the server that every miner is relying on for the split.
Any pool with client/server architecture (including OCEAN or Stratumv2) can just reject your templates or refuse to include you in the coinbase before you even find a block.
To decentralize anything you first have to remove the central point of control.
If I am mining on Sv2 or DATUM pool and they reject my template, how has template construction been decentralized?
because miners are the ones making the templates.
it's as simple as that.
decentralized reward coordination is a separate issue and utterly irrelevant to Bitcoin, regardless it is being figured out but it is extremely difficult to manage in a scalable way.
Just because they make their own templates it doesn’t mean mining is decentralized. What if my template asks for the full reward your node won’t grant me that
You can still reject those self created templates. Because your Ocean node finds the block and broadcasts it to all the miners connected to your node.
Ok let me ask you like this: when you remove Ocean - who coordinates the split?
Ignore the incentives… that always works well…
the block goes directly to the network from the miner via their own node. have you really not looked into how datum works?
You're not giving me a direct yes or no answer so I'll assume that you are trying to avoid admitting OCEAN would not accept a valid block find from one of their miners that excludes the pool fee.
Yes, I understand that the miner broadcasts their block find. What you are acting coy about is the fact that unless OCEAN is broadcasting the valid block find as well then there is a higher risk of that block being orphaned. The average miner doesn't have well connected direct node connections globally like a large mining pool does.
For you to tell me that OCEAN depends on their users' home networking connections to propagate blocks across the network is asinine.
👀
You seem to be under the impression that a pool must broadcast a block to minimize risk of it being orphaned. This isn't remotely true and was a weird part of your celebration with the FutureBit block last month.
Blocks are tiny and propagate really fast. We....kind of fought a war about maintaining that. Remember?
Really don't appreciate you asserting that I'm trying to be disingenuous or evasive here, you genuinely don't seem to have a firm grasp of where the bottlenecks actually lie.
You're imagining that it's better for a miner to tell a pool about a block and leverage their supposed superior connectivity rather than tell the network about it directly.
Amazingly, adding a middle man only slows things down.
How about if you don't want to be precived as acting coy you try answering direct questions with direct answers.
Large pools are directly connected to each other with WireGuard tunnels globally, that's where the term Super Node comes from. They do this so that when they find a block the other super nodes know about it nearly instantly so that they can minimize the risk of having a block orphaned.
An average home user doesn't have that kind of connectivity and there is a higher risk of their blocks being orphaned because of it. That's all I'm saying so don't spin like I think pools have to be the broadcaster.
It was not a weird celebration that we pointed out our Apollo block find wasn't orphaned, it is a note worthy accomplishment and a testament to the way John has engineered his product.
dude, it's a bullshit "gocha" that isn't gonna work.
That's the most retarded conclusion you could have drawn from this dialog. You have sucessfully made up an entire narative in your own head unrelated to my points. Thank you for making it painfully clear you're a complete douche bag incapable of abstract thought beyond a 4th grade level.
Of course we'd accept any valid block. That's a stupid assumption on your part. But the point is even if we didn't, it wouldn't be any worse than any other solo mining solution. The others all only broadcast from the miner's own node.
a lot of ocean hate is straight up people just not learning how it works.