"When I get mad and I get pissed,
I get my pen and I write out a list,
of all you assholes that won't be missed.
You've made my shitlist!"
L7, 'Shitlist'
nostr:npub1fgeemwn9zedxdnn32c4mlpnxdp62gwq6vs4q3hx6ehv5jp66ascsq766xk nostr:npub1trdnqrfstufc45awha43p6xy2n0v6czuhapzh4r09hap08dg0c6s9gussx nostr:npub1v7j7dtmgl6a3mhh3mhltcvlpzah8j9kh8scj7759t96mclrld44sehmcl4 nostr:npub1zxn5thzmj2252w9dfyw3n5vcgjrajawp5uvpss3v3wk9m20q6zased7s3u nostr:npub1w0h29g47254sgmjuaza0qj6cmvwd6qs9rffjyt34a4xs37rfu0sskruwua
I personally do not blame anyone for working with the police on the level, we have seen, neither Matrix nor Daniel.
However, there is a difference:
Daniel is only one "random" (sorry, Daniel!) person in the #Jabber #XMPP community. It's not the XSF nostr:npub15a43zxh6pmdl6k0f8lsxt5p9rx8d5pawhee6untdy7t8kw386vps7uqzna, that works with whoever.
In the case of Matrix, it is the company itself, which hold control of protocol and reference implementation. Again: I don't blame them.
nostr:npub14dlm9lmazz90enz5d6s382ypazq5ltuwcsnw4av37g5r5uh0yfcscj2rjr
This isn't quite accurate. The Matrix Foundation...
> hold control of protocol
Yes, I'm aware there is an overlap of personnel been the MF and the Element company, and yes, the software funded by Element is effectively the reference implementation. There's not as much separation of concerns between the two as I'd ideally like.
But I don't think it's fair to represent all things matrix as one entity, controlled by Element founders or funders.
nostr:npub1fgeemwn9zedxdnn32c4mlpnxdp62gwq6vs4q3hx6ehv5jp66ascsq766xk nostr:npub1v7j7dtmgl6a3mhh3mhltcvlpzah8j9kh8scj7759t96mclrld44sehmcl4 nostr:npub1zxn5thzmj2252w9dfyw3n5vcgjrajawp5uvpss3v3wk9m20q6zased7s3u nostr:npub1w0h29g47254sgmjuaza0qj6cmvwd6qs9rffjyt34a4xs37rfu0sskruwua nostr:npub15a43zxh6pmdl6k0f8lsxt5p9rx8d5pawhee6untdy7t8kw386vps7uqzna
For me, the idea came once I stopped blaming Facebook/Twitter users for their hateful/extremist views and instead saw them as the victims of the addictive information hellholes that have trapped them. They are not our enemies just because their community is still on FB. They are our brothers, sisters, parents, and children who have been left behind in a war zone, and it’s our duty to help get them out. nostr:npub1d98srwkt632thedj63eaj89kfyachrfah6gztw4xjvk5lcf9ezgsu7yhr5 nostr:npub1trdnqrfstufc45awha43p6xy2n0v6czuhapzh4r09hap08dg0c6s9gussx
nostr:npub1h73s7j2mdwzzv6a2fm9tfjchlaw4r7a59pfl0keqrahfja2k3stq4s8pv9
> They are our brothers, sisters, parents, and children who have been left behind in a war zone, and it’s our duty to help get them out
This is exactly why I've been advocating for federating with Meta's Chains. Maybe Limiting, but not Suspending (to use Mastodon terminology). I see this as part of a larger strategy that also involves actively encouraging people to move from Chains to non-corporate servers, and writing export tools that make that easier.
nostr:npub1d98srwkt632thedj63eaj89kfyachrfah6gztw4xjvk5lcf9ezgsu7yhr5
nostr:npub1trdnqrfstufc45awha43p6xy2n0v6czuhapzh4r09hap08dg0c6s9gussx
I think the problem is a lack of digital IDs, like #DID. Federalized IDs are inadequate.
https://www.w3.org/TR/did-core/
nostr:npub1g0ry43689uwqw8rh9xdvdtlygvq0qkp52aeafwykj9jgkqhnyhksgv32x8
> I think the problem is a lack of digital IDs, like #DID. Federalized IDs are inadequate
Do you have specific proposals for how to use DID with ActivityPub, or an updated version of it? Sounds like something that would make a great FEP.
nostr:npub1trdnqrfstufc45awha43p6xy2n0v6czuhapzh4r09hap08dg0c6s9gussx seem equally true about the Democratic Party in the US. Just too scared to be bold.
nostr:npub1k6xq9rjrs8hx0smmdfenh8w3u5qytfl8yentdfs5hslpnltl0jmqzszgzw
> equally true about the Democratic Party in the US
Ae, as I said, liberal parties in general.
> Just too scared to be bold
... because they're misinterpreting the signals coming back from the public. Something the corporate news media plays a big role in making sure they do. This applies to the public too. Their paymasters want anyone to the left of neoliberal "centre-left" parties to feel like a "loony left" freak, and politically alone.
nostr:npub1trdnqrfstufc45awha43p6xy2n0v6czuhapzh4r09hap08dg0c6s9gussx nostr:npub1v7j7dtmgl6a3mhh3mhltcvlpzah8j9kh8scj7759t96mclrld44sehmcl4 nostr:npub1zxn5thzmj2252w9dfyw3n5vcgjrajawp5uvpss3v3wk9m20q6zased7s3u nostr:npub1w0h29g47254sgmjuaza0qj6cmvwd6qs9rffjyt34a4xs37rfu0sskruwua Yes, but the developer found out about it in an article that his open source app is used by the police. He did not go to the police and tried to sell them a product like Matrix did. Matrix can't even build their product on existing standards so no reason to use them anyways.
nostr:npub1fgeemwn9zedxdnn32c4mlpnxdp62gwq6vs4q3hx6ehv5jp66ascsq766xk
> the developer found out about it in an article that his open source app is used by the police. He did not go to the police and tried to sell them a product
So it's better if the cops use Free Code software and *don't* help fund its development? Why?
> Matrix can't even build their product on existing standards
Matrix is a protocol, not an entity that builds products. So I'm not sure what you mean here.
nostr:npub1v7j7dtmgl6a3mhh3mhltcvlpzah8j9kh8scj7759t96mclrld44sehmcl4 nostr:npub1zxn5thzmj2252w9dfyw3n5vcgjrajawp5uvpss3v3wk9m20q6zased7s3u nostr:npub1w0h29g47254sgmjuaza0qj6cmvwd6qs9rffjyt34a4xs37rfu0sskruwua
nostr:npub1trdnqrfstufc45awha43p6xy2n0v6czuhapzh4r09hap08dg0c6s9gussx I get the gripe about the lack of user groups or sth like that. That's understandable.
But where did you get the idea that Mastodon was supposed to replace Facebook?
nostr:npub1d98srwkt632thedj63eaj89kfyachrfah6gztw4xjvk5lcf9ezgsu7yhr5
> But where did you get the idea that Mastodon was supposed to replace Facebook?
I wasn't talking about Mastodon specifically. If you know of fediverse software that's more suitable as a FB replacement, please share.
nostr:npub17mw7ejdqn6xet2afjky0gl3y8rn7373athrqhx5d2vl8jr8sl9qsf3xy9f
@mention nostr:npub1trdnqrfstufc45awha43p6xy2n0v6czuhapzh4r09hap08dg0c6s9gussx @stryper_is_the_best_band
Would DIDs or Decentralized IDs resolve the confusion? How much do "federated IDs" contribute to the confusion?
nostr:npub1kd8dzj3xn2x9zlt3tsvflsjgulyx56jeq3j62f5erdz9etx8kf9qyraw7w
I think it's more of an app design problem than a protocol problem. But can you expand on...
> Would DIDs or Decentralized IDs resolve the confusion? How much do "federated IDs" contribute to the confusion?
nostr:npub17mw7ejdqn6xet2afjky0gl3y8rn7373athrqhx5d2vl8jr8sl9qsf3xy9f
nostr:npub17mw7ejdqn6xet2afjky0gl3y8rn7373athrqhx5d2vl8jr8sl9qsf3xy9f
Exactly! In addition, I have a few friends who have multiple accounts. Some of which are alternative accounts, some active, and some defunct. Can I remember which is which? Nope!
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nostr:npub1euecgv2cv6kz7z5aqfh85xggpns8c9hr7xgvmzxj6y4kx24az6wqwxsxl0
> I have a few friends who have multiple accounts. Some of which are alternative accounts, some active, and some defunct. Can I remember which is which? Nope!
This! I have to open a separate search tool, and check the latest posts in all their accounts to see which one I want to @mention.
nostr:npub17mw7ejdqn6xet2afjky0gl3y8rn7373athrqhx5d2vl8jr8sl9qsf3xy9f
nostr:npub1q0hyk5rfkj3a5w8aactlc9z4374m54ll8pkmfc6hhy4dt8cq5nfq7lxqc8
Because whakapapa isn't just about actual family ties - whether through blood or marriage - but any shared history or cooperation - or conflict - that relates them to people in the other group. Time spent getting all this on the table means that by the time they start discussing the agenda of the meeting, everyone already knows where they stand with each other. Which *always* affects the way group conversations play out, often in confusing ways if it's not explicit
(4/?)
nostr:npub1q0hyk5rfkj3a5w8aactlc9z4374m54ll8pkmfc6hhy4dt8cq5nfq7lxqc8
Pākeha (non-Māori, particularly those of European cultural origins) often fail to understand the value of whakawhanaungatanga. We tend to assume that time would be better spent on agenda items. But once one gets used to the practice, it becomes obvious that it saves far more time than it uses up, by avoiding a lot of miscommunication, mismatched expectations etc.
I think this is something the Free Code development culture could learn a lot from.
😁
(5/5)
nostr:npub1q0hyk5rfkj3a5w8aactlc9z4374m54ll8pkmfc6hhy4dt8cq5nfq7lxqc8
But even this is pretty ambiguous. Among Māori, the indigenous people of Aotearoa, there's a brilliant cultural technology called "whakawhanaungatanga". It roughly translates as "making family".
Whenever they come together in a formal setting, they spend a lot of time establishing "whakapapa". This is often translated as "genealogy", but that's only one tiny slice of it. A better translation might be "relatedness".
(3/?)
nostr:npub1q0hyk5rfkj3a5w8aactlc9z4374m54ll8pkmfc6hhy4dt8cq5nfq7lxqc8
Because whakapapa isn't just about actual family ties - whether through blood or marriage - but any shared history or cooperation - or conflict - that relates them to people in the other group. Time spent getting all this on the table means that by the time they start discussing the agenda of the meeting, everyone already knows where they stand with each other. Which *always* affects the way group conversations play out, often in confusing ways if it's not explicit
(4/?)
nostr:npub1q0hyk5rfkj3a5w8aactlc9z4374m54ll8pkmfc6hhy4dt8cq5nfq7lxqc8
To some degree one could see a project's choice of CoC as an example of surfacing expectations. Those based on the GNU Kind Communication Guidelines could be saying they're more of a hacker project, foundation people welcome in their spare time. Whereas those adopting the Contributor Covenant and other templates might suggest a project led by foundation people and corporate employees, doing Open Source at work
(2/?)
nostr:npub1q0hyk5rfkj3a5w8aactlc9z4374m54ll8pkmfc6hhy4dt8cq5nfq7lxqc8
But even this is pretty ambiguous. Among Māori, the indigenous people of Aotearoa, there's a brilliant cultural technology called "whakawhanaungatanga". It roughly translates as "making family".
Whenever they come together in a formal setting, they spend a lot of time establishing "whakapapa". This is often translated as "genealogy", but that's only one tiny slice of it. A better translation might be "relatedness".
(3/?)
nostr:npub1q0hyk5rfkj3a5w8aactlc9z4374m54ll8pkmfc6hhy4dt8cq5nfq7lxqc8
> do you think focusing on how governance *actually* operates in a project... can be a helpful way of working with those differences? Or is that a killjoy too?
It certainly could be. As I said here...
https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/110830595642528026
... I think there's value in making expectations explicit at the start of a new project, and when new people join.
(1/?)
nostr:npub1q0hyk5rfkj3a5w8aactlc9z4374m54ll8pkmfc6hhy4dt8cq5nfq7lxqc8
To some degree one could see a project's choice of CoC as an example of surfacing expectations. Those based on the GNU Kind Communication Guidelines could be saying they're more of a hacker project, foundation people welcome in their spare time. Whereas those adopting the Contributor Covenant and other templates might suggest a project led by foundation people and corporate employees, doing Open Source at work
(2/?)
nostr:npub1trdnqrfstufc45awha43p6xy2n0v6czuhapzh4r09hap08dg0c6s9gussx do you think focusing on how governance *actually* operates in a project (both implicitly and explicitly) can be a helpful way of working with those differences? Or is that a killjoy too?
nostr:npub1q0hyk5rfkj3a5w8aactlc9z4374m54ll8pkmfc6hhy4dt8cq5nfq7lxqc8
> do you think focusing on how governance *actually* operates in a project... can be a helpful way of working with those differences? Or is that a killjoy too?
It certainly could be. As I said here...
https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/110830595642528026
... I think there's value in making expectations explicit at the start of a new project, and when new people join.
(1/?)
"Thanks to the Subgenus thing, I realised I wasn't alone. There were weirdos all over the place."
Reverend Ivan Stang
J. R. "Bob" Dobbs and The Church of the SubGenius (2019)
https://piped.video/watch?v=u2Qcnuk-w7k
#ChurchOfTheSubGenius
I'm struggling to with a piece of work I really want to finish and send off. I think Futureproof, the 1998 album by kiwi electro-dub pioneers Pitch Black is the only way I'm going to get through it. It contains a track called They Are Among Us, an epic remix of Conspiracy Dub by the equally pioneering Salmonella Dub. Both these tracks are #Earworms for me, possibly because I heard that latter during my first LSD experience : )
#JukeboxFridayNight #SongsThatGetStuckInYourHead
Every now and then I want to @mention someone I know, who I remember interacting with here at some point, but I can't remember their fediverse address. Every time I try, I remember the UI of existing #fediverse apps aren't good at helping me distinguishing my friends from the random strangers I've casually chatted with here.
This is why we're nowhere near ready to replace FarceBook. Although I'm hopeful that newer projects like Bonfire might get us closer...
#fediverse #FB #FarceBook
nostr:npub1trdnqrfstufc45awha43p6xy2n0v6czuhapzh4r09hap08dg0c6s9gussx
Good observation! Certainly once you get to the point of having a somewhat well funded foundation, it does change the balance a bit.
On one hand, it's good that people who have spent a considerable amount of their lives working on a project can start getting paid for their efforts if they want that to be their career. However, it does also mean that you're less likely to retain others who might've contributed before, but now might not bother (with all the bureaucracy + pay-politics)
nostr:npub1uhpdq940eqwr77hn7u98pvatferfpm2gvy5ld288waplx84lptvq6x368e
> Once you get to the point of having a somewhat well funded foundation, it does change the balance a bit
I don't think it's so much of a problem inside a single, large project (eg Wikipedia or Mozilla), where a combination of cultural continuity and pre-established relationships can smooth the waters. Where it really bits is when new projects are being formed, and people are coming in with *very* different (and usually unconscious) assumptions about how a dev community works.
Me:
> this thought experiment is a useful way to stop and think about whether you're showing care for people who will receive your post. Which in term determines whether your message gets through.
nostr:npub1q8nhcxa8t9zfk06ggqwpwcr64znkxvnwt2wgzqdtga920g355p4qdfkct8
> you are indeed conflating childproofing the internet with empathy.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Thanks for the discussion.
nostr:npub1ks4j70qusuv7hnaqcrr3azks95fxjpz4sx29sy9h35z3vltwaunsmdx88p
nostr:npub1w0h29g47254sgmjuaza0qj6cmvwd6qs9rffjyt34a4xs37rfu0sskruwua There was a time in ancient internet history that people evaluated network technology by focusing on protocols. But for the last couple of decades, that focus has been actively shifted to *products* by PR and marketing people working for the DataFarms. That's why far more people have heard of Mastodon than ActivityPub, or Element than matrix.